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  1. #101
    Junior Member nor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isk Stark View Post
    Well, yeah. Are all Asians good at math? Do all dogs bite strangers? Are all atheists angry? Are all west Africans fast runners?
    All Asians are Asian; they've that in common. All dogs are dogs; they've that in common. All West Africans are West African; they've that in common. All atheists are atheists; they've that in common. All theists are theists; they've that in common.

    As such, they may be validly grouped together based upon that commonality. Is that dehumanizing?

    I inferred it. Am I wrong? Please correct my assumption, then.
    I'm examining atheism, here, not making any claims about its justifiability. Nor have I rejected any theistic arguments. I'm no atheist. My arguments here aren't exclusively pertinent to atheism, too; your arguments aren't theistic. My beliefs are irrelevant to this discussion. I value understanding.

    It seems to me that you're the one who operates through appeals to stereotypes (whichever you perceived), now.

    Would you describe yourself as a humble person or have you figured it(life) all out?
    Answer the previous question — directly.

    Yes. However, I reject the claim that it exists, physically.
    So you lack belief in it.

    so I reject the claim.
    So you lack belief in it.

    And yet, that contradicts what you said in your penultimate post.

    You reject the idea of God.
    Oh, so you've made your mind up.

    Your problem may be conflating ideas with the physical universe.
    No, that really seems to be your problem, in virtue of your answering this in the affirmative:

    Quote Originally Posted by nor View Post
    knowledge of the existence of the concept of a multiverse fundamentally obviates one from lacking belief in a multiverse's existence?
    That "yes" fundamentally contradicts everything you're saying now.

    So while you attempt to straighten this paradox out, you might also try to figure out how a non-thing can be a thing. I'll try to be humble and courageous while waiting.
    Last edited by nor; 01-12-2018 at 04:57 PM. Reason: several.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norexan View Post
    And you still don't consider how wrong is your beliefs...
    Why do you warship god who demand slavery and forbids freedom?
    Why do you warship god who punish people in sadistic ways....
    Why do you warship a god who demand justice of fire and blood to bring peace?
    Why do you warship a god when there is no omnipotence in his acts?
    Why do you warship a god who don't have a knowledge of his creation called humans - our flows
    Why do you warship a god who punish humans because of HIS flows?
    Why do you warship a god when there is clear that we are made TO SERVE as his slaves and toys like literately.
    Why don't you recognize the limits of his power as any low deities on Earth?
    Who else need this deity when we can see he is oblivious a lier, spoils child and butcher.

    THE DEVIL HIMSELF.
    Listen to me, @Mole @Isk Stark @Norexan You better delete all your accounts including your duplicate ones or I'm going to get you banned from this site.

  3. #103
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    This is how I feel about the Islamophobic gang of imaginary friends Mole has created for himself :
    YouTube

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norexan View Post
    And you still don't consider how wrong is your beliefs...
    Why do you warship god who demand slavery and forbids freedom?
    Why do you warship god who punish people in sadistic ways....
    Why do you warship a god who demand justice of fire and blood to bring peace?
    Why do you warship a god when there is no omnipotence in his acts?
    Why do you warship a god who don't have a knowledge of his creation called humans - our flows
    Why do you warship a god who punish humans because of HIS flows?
    Why do you warship a god when there is clear that we are made TO SERVE as his slaves and toys like literately.
    Why don't you recognize the limits of his power as any low deities on Earth?
    Who else need this deity when we can see he is oblivious a lier, spoils child and butcher.

    THE DEVIL HIMSELF.
    i also think of your personas like this @Mole
    YouTube

  5. #105
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    here's how I also feel @Mole @Norexan @Isk Stark is it TRUE, that when your MOTHER gave birth to you, she shouted, "ah nah, what a HIDEOUS BAAAAABBBBYYYYY!!!!! But em back een, ima have en abortion...."

  6. #106
    Senior Member Justin of Flavia Neapolis's Avatar
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    @nor I’ll get back to you later. Possibly Monday. Have a good weekend.

  7. #107
    Quetzalcoatl Norexan's Avatar
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    BTW I am agnostic and I was talking about concept of Judeo-Christian god in general...
    Life Path 4. True Neutral 8 1 6 3 7 5 Teexcellent>Niexcellent>Figood>Tigood>>>>Siaverage>Fe unused
    The most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson
    ===Logical Crusader===

    Dail [or Daer] ú-[o] chyn [or fyn/thyn] [?] Ú-danno i failad a thi; an úben tannatha le failad.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    This is how I feel about the Islamophobic gang of imaginary friends Mole has created for himself : YouTube

    We are faced with Jihad, that is coosidered normal, is taken for granted, and is without reflection or insight.

    And the stated aim is to get rid of. critics by making false accusations.

  9. #109
    clever fool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
    here's how I also feel @Mole @Norexan @Isk Stark is it TRUE, that when your MOTHER gave birth to you, she shouted, "ah nah, what a HIDEOUS BAAAAABBBBYYYYY!!!!! But em back een, ima have en abortion...."
    Why do you insult people who disagree with your religion?

    Is free speech not a thing or can't I critisize your concept of God without being attacked, either?
    Likes Norexan, ceecee, Mole liked this post

  10. #110
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    I don't believe anything unless it is proven by science. If there was a God he would reveal himself. The state of the world shows no intelligent design. Me as a mere mortal could conceive if we were hardwired to be a rational, reason orientated species with critical thinking skills. I have seen documentaries where it is shown the human species is hard wired to being superstitious.

    “We must be able to use and learn critical thinking skills and take no dogma whether religious or political. The truth is within us. No man is a god no matter his credentials. Humans wrote all religious texts, and humans are fallible. Learn to think for yourself. This and hearing the feedback of others will help us grow. This instead of being stuck in dogma that on one hand has universal truths, but yet at the same time is behind the times."

    "My perspective is thus;. (2) All writings aren't at all God's word. We haven't a capacity of writing this down without gross distortions in thought coming in and so taint scripture. (3) They are metaphorical and definitely not to be taken as truth.

    (4) If a writing of Bible, Qur'an (Koran for the western), Upanishad, Talmud, Dhammapada, Bhagavad Gita, Sutra, Christian Gospels, Analects of the Confucian type, I Ching, Vedas, Book of Mormon...(etc.) contain a negative statement than it is a reflection of human error and prejudice.

    This stems from an author with prejudice, judgmental type of attitude, pejoratives, labeling, cognitive distortions, discrimination and a holier than thou perspective.

    (5) They are to be taken just as seriously and given credence as the Scandinavian myths, or Greco-Roman type of mythological view.

    "If God doesn't exist then how was everything created? We simply don't know. One can not disprove the concept of God nor disprove it. We will not have a rapture or judgment day. Time will continue marching on with each generation feeling that these are the end times. To me each religion is a hypothesis to explain the inexplicable. It does not use the scientific method nor does it collect objective fact. It exists merely as a construct to explain the unknown. I have watched documentaries and it is shown the human species as a tendency to believe in the supernatural.

    It's what our brain is telling us but our brain lies to us each and every day. It filters in and out information so no one sees reality clearly in it's entirety rather they are perceptions corrupted by one's senses, judgments, stereotypes and hidden blind spots. It has been shown eye witness testimony is unreliable. Unfortunately with religion a hypothesis called God was developed during the bronze age. It is still readily followed. Science on the other hand grows. It develops hypothesis and theories but then revises them with more objectively proven theories.

    The big bang is science's hypothesis of the origin of the universe. The fact is we may never know the true cause. There are no causal variables that dictate A happened from B. It is all correlation and guesses and does not have reliable proof. God has yet to be discovered and he can not be measured. He does not exist in a scientific world. I believe in a universal force which helps to tie the universe together. Ultimately, I think we are energy as well as chemical beings. I am agnostic, existentialist, humanist, and feminist with other attributes. Each will believe that what they believe is true. I have learned the hard way not to trust the emotions.

    I am much more into science. I feel everyone has a tie to this universal wisdom. Each is flawed. We need each other to balance out the discrepancies in our logic. We are connected to the universe. We are all interrelated make no mistake about that this. It is your will and your desire that directs and taps into this universal consciousness. It is your fundamental will that directs and channels change as well as metamorphosis. Do not seek a miracle, for you are the miracle.

    One needs will and focus not relying on an external source that will do the work for you. You are the maker of your destiny. I think that anything that cannot be explained as of yet is attributed to God. There is so much that we still don't know. It is the unknown and this causes distress. We need an explanation our curious mind with its curiosity needs to know and to classify things both to make ourselves feel better and to explain it to others.

    Our wonderful creative brain fills in the blanks. We use metaphors to describe things we may not know the truth of. These metaphors are written down. People hold on to it to explain reality. It is taken as truth. God or Goddess is varied and means very different things to varied people. We do not have the capacity to grasp God. All we can do is have a belief system and work from that point. It is so disturbing and anger provoking to see humankind squabble over what they don't have a clue of. I do so like eastern philosophy in that there being different roads as well paths up to the mountain.

    This is in stark contrast with the Western monotheistic religions of Christianity, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism as well Islam. I say let each live their path. Now there is the phenomenon of deep meditative states where one experiences a peaceful interconnections with the oneness of the universe. One can label that God. There is no direct truth. There are inferences and suppositions. However one can attribute and 'Feel' that there is a God, and therefore we take it at face value.

    I will humbly make this statement, what I think, feel and believe passionately may be wrong. I may be wrong and not know it. I guess to me it goes back on how we lead our individual lives. There are evil Christians and evil atheists. There are good Christians and good atheists. This is what matters to me. In mysticism. and meditation one can feel to lose themselves. This is a heady rush. People ascribe this phenomenon to God. I believe that it has a scientific explanation. But this powerful felt heady euphoria is experienced in all the branches of religion; Kabbalah, Sufism, etc.

    I equate it as sort of as feeling in love. Feeling in love is heady and quite fascinating. A thing I do acknowledge is that an experience such as feeling saved, or feeling and being in love is a profound feeling. Some shall describe it as being connected to the almighty or to a universal consciousness or state of oneness. A believer will not in any way convince a non-believer with using reason, for it is felt. I am of the belief that it is incorrectly labeled as coming from a higher power. A nonbeliever will conversely be unable to convince a devout believer to ascribe with agnostic beliefs. Let's live and love each other and leave every one alone.

    I am an idealist who tries to think with rational reasoning free of distortions to the best of my ability. I don't know if man will always be fighting each other. It makes no sense. I think the dinosaurs were here for 160,000,000 years. We are still infants. That can give us hope. Evolution and moral consciousness is an extremely slow process. No wonder there are so many cults. Their problem is that they circumvent freedom and individuality.

    This is a generalization for all humans. The religious texts are wonderful with love such as love of thy neighbor. However the psychology of the human species is such that the human race has blind spots, emotional reasoning, rationalization, denial and other defenses that blind mankind to the ultimate truth. The religious texts say what to do but they offer no format to educate and instill the Bible's principles as ingrained and instinctive. People will only walk their talk when we evolve to posses Agape love and compassion and using critical reasoning.

    What about a new planned society. A new "religion" & or brand new philosophy that actually works. Right now, none of the religions are working effectively enough to counteract the ignorance of the human species. Let's start a brand new society based on non-negative energy. It will require we don't expend negative energy and most important not repaying negative energy with your own. Let's create a society that functions and can bring flow to the people. Do not go into superstition and fear. Believe in yourselves. We are interconnected, of that it is certain. What is not certain is the evidence of a Devil. This is misguided. We were as children around a campfire.

    We told stories of what we could not understand. So we made up monsters, in every culture. The Devil is unreal and total fiction. There is no reason to fear the invisible non-being of something that does not exist. The concept of the Devil is a product of our own projected fears. We are the makers of our destiny and not god or devil. Why do we do evil ignorant things. We have internal distortions of thought. Throw in our pain of unresolved issues. We must heal. How will do that exactly.

    Independent thought should be encouraged, nay cherished and nurtured in society. Along with this comes tolerance and respect for other people's world views. They are unique to the individual. Everyone has a gift and seed of life which is to find one's gift. Pursuing our true natures free of juvenile ego we learn to transcend the illusions and distractions of the world. By identifying and pursuing one's gifts we get into a state of flow.

    We learn life's lessons, to be humble and transcend one's ego and to finally live life in a present state of mind. Each should be allowed to come up with their own answers as free, unique, individuals with unique mind sets. We define our meaning. Truth manifests as a veil or cloud akin to the Willow of the Wisp we follow in discovering life's secrets. Truth and wisdom is there but always seemingly beyond a practical and handy reach. It is lessons in life that give us deeper understanding of ourselves, other and reality.A large amount of our beliefs happens to be learned opinion. We don't with science and critical thought examine our underlying belief system.

    To say "I don't know" is the beginning of wisdom as Socrates stated. The critical teachings of ancient days used fables to teach lessons. We need to critically think and use the teachings in the spirit they were intended. A path of love and as well crucial reason needs to be in the mix. Wthout it we truly do not understand what is taught. With rationalization and unconscious blind spots we can corrupt all teachings for our own use.

    They are not in fact truth but only a lesson to think upon. We can’t use or corrupt what is taught in fables. Nor are they to be used, nay corrupted in what is a discriminatory sense when we are teaching people.
    I am not in an atheist view. They say with definitive standing that there is no such thing as God. I can't in some conscience ascertain such as their position. Who am I to know? Ultimately there in life we must place but one step at a time throughout the course of our lives. I always open to new scientific understanding in which to see this world from a fresh and new angle or perception.

    Our perception will change in the course of life and our perceptions of reality will shift and reorganize. I do not have belief we will take our identity into the next plane. It would be an erasure of my personality into a higher form. I totally reject notion of our soul in existence for all eternity. We happen existing as chemical, matter and energy. The using of such any term as soul group may in scientific term be termed as an 'Energy Group' of individuals in synergistic connection and mutual understanding.

    When two or more individuals share and resonate their is what amounts to synergy. We must take responsibility for our own destinies which is why I happen to be an existentialist. Each man or woman must discover his or her own fate. We must determine our own meaning. I can say I am for healing, growing and actualizing into one's true potential. Existentialism does say that during our course in our lives we reach pivotal points. Call them crossroads when in times of stress and cognitive dissonance decisions can be meant to change, even sway how we define our being.

    Existentialism is to me pure freedom. Freedom to find one's own path to the top of the mountain in life whether it be atheism, Shangri-La, nirvana, a path to heaven, enlightenment, self -actualization or any other mode of thought and perception of reality.”
    Likes Mole liked this post

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