Arguments, unless valid, aren't evidence of anything but perhaps ineptitude, in certain cases.
From an atheist's perspective (made clear to appeal to your sentiment), if the theistic argument is invalid, accepting it regarldess is patently irrational — is that not the case?2. Apparently, there are plenty of rational reasons to be a theist: Intelligent, philosophical, creationist, whatever. Atheists, being the oppressed minority they are, simply reject these rational reasons for their own rational reasons.
All theists are theists because they believe in god's existence; all atheists are atheists because they lack belief god's existence/reject theistic arguments — they are labeled as such for a reason. A shared one, necessarily.2. Rational reasoning is obviously predicated on the theist or atheist, not all theists/atheistsTM are theists/atheists for the same reasons.
If an individual doesn't believe in god, having never thought/heard of the concept, they're atheists by default; that's logic. Therefore atheism needn't require any "claims", as I've said.Hence the need to either accept or reject the various theistic/atheistic claims, which is why a dog can't be theist/atheist because it requires rational reasoning to do so. Unless, you want to claim that dogs are atheist for lacking a belief in Dog.
To reject an argument, though, is to employ reasoning (rational, if that rejection is such) to arrive at a conclusion: the argument's falsity. Again, no knowledge necessarily required, as I illustrated in my previous post (its point obviously missed).
So knowledge of the existence of the concept of a multiverse fundamentally obviates one from lacking belief in a multiverse's existence? Seriously?I reject the existence of a Multiverse. I can't be said to lack a belief in a multiverse because I've already been introduced to the concept. I can reject the rational reasoning for it, instead of retreating to philosophical cowardice of the word "Belief."
Okay; so do you lack belief in the existence of shit-flinging Venusian alien spacecrafts? You've been introduced to the concept, so tread lightly around the possibility of the acceptance of the craven.
Both atheists and theists have "figured it out" — your turn.Atheists need to figure this out on their own.
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Thread: Allah and the Universe
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01-12-2018, 01:59 PM #91
Last edited by nor; 01-12-2018 at 02:11 PM. Reason: tense tense.
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01-12-2018, 02:33 PM #92
So, you reject the arguments. That's fine...and honest.
From an atheist's perspective (made clear to appeal to your sentiment), if the theistic argument is invalid, accepting it regarldess is patently irrational — is that not the case?
All theists are theists because they believe in god's existence; all atheists are atheists because they lack belief god's existence/reject theistic arguments — they are labeled as such for a reason. A shared one, necessarily.).
If an individual doesn't believe in god, having never thought/heard of the concept, they're atheists by default; that's logic.
Therefore atheism needn't require any "claims", as I've said.
To reject an argument, though, is to employ reasoning (rational, if that rejection is such) to arrive at a conclusion: the argument's falsity. Again, no knowledge necessarily required, as I illustrated in my previous post (its point obviously missed).
So knowledge of the existence of the concept of a multiverse fundamentally obviates one from lacking belief in a multiverse's existence?
Seriously?
Okay; so do you lack belief in the existence of shit-flinging Venusian alien spacecrafts?
You've been introduced to the concept, so tread lightly around the possibility of the acceptance of the craven.
Both atheists and theists have "figured it out" — your turn.
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01-12-2018, 03:05 PM #93
Neither is Allah. He is stolen from Bible and Yahweh is stolen from Semitic mythology. El Elohim Ellah Allah
What if I told you that same pseudo-god God El has a son Baal, god of thunder who was cast from heaven and become god of evil...
What if I told that same God in early Judaism has a Wife?
What if I told you that cube in Mecca is symbol of Saturn/Cronus, god who devour his children...Jupiter/Zeus god of thunder...Life Path 4. True Neutral 8 1 6 3 7 5 Teexcellent>Niexcellent>Figood>Tigood>>>>Siaverage>Fe unusedThe most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson
===Logical Crusader===
Dail [or Daer] ú-[o] chyn [or fyn/thyn] [?] Ú-danno i failad a thi; an úben tannatha le failad.Typh0n liked this post
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01-12-2018, 03:06 PM #94
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01-12-2018, 03:10 PM #95
Do you realize Judaeo-Christian god is a deity with pagan origin?
Life Path 4. True Neutral 8 1 6 3 7 5 Teexcellent>Niexcellent>Figood>Tigood>>>>Siaverage>Fe unusedThe most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson
===Logical Crusader===
Dail [or Daer] ú-[o] chyn [or fyn/thyn] [?] Ú-danno i failad a thi; an úben tannatha le failad.
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01-12-2018, 03:12 PM #96
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01-12-2018, 03:15 PM #97
It's dishonest to, say, group theists together based on their theism? Again, seriously?
And to recognize the necessary (for the nomenclature to make any sense) commonality is to "group into some amorphous, singular entity", which is dehumanizing. Got it.
(even if you are atheist).
Not necessarily. Let's say the atheist in your example encounters a theist. The inevitable happens (you know...God). Is that atheist still an atheist since he no longer lacks a belief in God. Or is he atheist because he rejects the theists claims?
If there was no change post encounter, the atheist remains an atheist.
First, try being civil.
Figured out the Flew definition of atheism?
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Double yes. Because I'm no longer lacking in the belief in a multiverse. The concept is now in my head. The next step is either to accept or reject or mull it over.
As ridiculous as it sounds, not anymore.
Brilliant.Last edited by nor; 01-12-2018 at 03:18 PM. Reason: whether the definition is understood or not, this is enough.
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01-12-2018, 03:17 PM #98Life Path 4. True Neutral 8 1 6 3 7 5 Teexcellent>Niexcellent>Figood>Tigood>>>>Siaverage>Fe unusedThe most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson
===Logical Crusader===
Dail [or Daer] ú-[o] chyn [or fyn/thyn] [?] Ú-danno i failad a thi; an úben tannatha le failad.
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01-12-2018, 03:42 PM #99
Well, yeah. Are all Asians good at math? Do all dogs bite strangers? Are all atheists angry? Are all west Africans fast runners?
When did I say that?
What claims? Do you not reject arguments in favor of Ra's existence? Does that make you an atheist?
Did you know that the Romans considered Christians atheists for disbelieving in their gods? So, yeah it would technically make me atheist to Ra, but I don't identify as that since it would be a negative belief, and I believe in one more God that you don't, as Saint Dawkins would say.
If there was no change post encounter, the atheist remains an atheist.
I'm trying; where did I fail?
If you don't lack belief, you've belief; belief in the existence of a multiverse. So:
You believe in shit-flinging Venusian alien spacecrafts.
Brilliant.
You reject the idea of God.
Your problem may be conflating ideas with the physical universe. Is God a physical entity to you?
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Yes. Was it Brahmin, Shiva, and Vishnu? Something like that.
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01-12-2018, 04:22 PM #100Yes. Was it Brahmin, Shiva, and Vishnu? Something like that.
Why do you warship god who demand slavery and forbids freedom?
Why do you warship god who punish people in sadistic ways....
Why do you warship a god who demand justice of fire and blood to bring peace?
Why do you warship a god when there is no omnipotence in his acts?
Why do you warship a god who don't have a knowledge of his creation called humans - our flows
Why do you warship a god who punish humans because of HIS flows?
Why do you warship a god when there is clear that we are made TO SERVE as his slaves and toys like literately.
Why don't you recognize the limits of his power as any low deities on Earth?
Who else need this deity when we can see he is oblivious a lier, spoils child and butcher.
THE DEVIL HIMSELF.Life Path 4. True Neutral 8 1 6 3 7 5 Teexcellent>Niexcellent>Figood>Tigood>>>>Siaverage>Fe unusedThe most sacred of the duties of a government [is] to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens." --Thomas Jefferson
===Logical Crusader===
Dail [or Daer] ú-[o] chyn [or fyn/thyn] [?] Ú-danno i failad a thi; an úben tannatha le failad.
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