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  1. #41
    Senior Member Smilephantomhive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qlip View Post
    Let me get this right from your point of view... God created people with aberrant genetics that make them not believe in him? Oh the implications, he truly works in mysterious ways.
    I mean imo if god exists then we created humans as entertainment. He got bored with people believing and worshiping him all the time, so he created non believers for the conflict.


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  2. #42
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Atheists are more likely to be left handed, study finds



    Interesting theory. Anyone have any thoughts, feelings, or ideas on this.....
    We are clearly the product of our upbringing (either intentional or uncontrolled environmental factors) and our genetics. This understanding is, I think, pretty uncontroversial. A lizard isn't religious, and a child of Muslim parents isn't likely to adopt the Jewish faith. One can infer from each of these extremes the importance of both genetics and environment on one's religious proclivities. The study isn't particularly potent in shifting that general perspective.

    I think the study and any subsequent discussion on the matter feels important, though, given the growing onslaught of anti-religious sentiment. After all, atheists will cite studies that show an inverse correlation between religious affinity and education. From this, they'll infer that religion is a tool of the ignorant. By citing and pushing evidence that atheism is a genetic trait, one softens the blow of that argument. And, in the context of its association with left-handedness and autism, casts atheism as somewhat of a genetic anomaly (atheists aren't a better educated class--they're filthy mutants). That, I think is ultimately what is to be gained from any such discussion, rightly or wrongly. Not particularly helpful behavior from either side.

    I think Noam Chomsky put it best, though:

    I haven’t been thrilled by the atheist movement. First, who is the audience? Is it religious extremists? Say right-wing evangelical Christians like George Bush (as you rightly point out)? Or is it very prominent Rabbis in Israel who call for visiting the judgment of Amalek on all Palestinians (total destruction, down to their animals)? Or is it the radical Islamic fundamentalists who have been Washington’s most valued allies in the Middle East for 75 years (note that Bush’s current trip to the Middle East celebrates two events: the 60th anniversary of the State of Israel, and the 75th anniversary of establishment of US-Saudi relations, each of which merits more comment)? If those are the intended audiences, the effort is plainly a waste of time. Is the audience atheists? Again a waste of time. Is it the grieving mother who consoles herself by thinking that she will see her dying child again in heaven? If so, only the most morally depraved will deliver solemn lectures to her about the falsity of her beliefs. Is it those who have religious affiliations and beliefs, but don’t have to be reminded of what they knew as teenagers about the genocidal character of the Bible, the fact that biblical accounts are not literal truths, or that religion has often been the banner under which hideous crimes were carried out (the Crusades, for example)? Plainly not. The message is old hat, and irrelevant, at least for those whose religious affiliations are a way of finding some sort of community and mutual support in an atomized society lacking social bonds. Who, in fact, is the audience?

    Furthermore, if it is to be even minimally serious, the “new atheism” should focus its concerns on the virulent secular religions of state worship, so well exemplified by those who laud huge atrocities like the invasion of Iraq, or cannot comprehend why they might have some concern when their own state, with their support, carries out some of its minor peccadilloes, like killing probably tens of thousands of poor Africans by destroying their main source of pharmaceutical supplies on a whim — arguably more morally depraved than intentional killing, for reasons I’ve discussed elsewhere. In brief, to be minimally serious the “new atheism” should begin by looking in the mirror.

    Without going on, I haven’t found it thrilling, though condemnation of dangerous beliefs and great crimes is always in order.

    In other words, who cares? Let's call out bigotry and bad behavior (or sin) where we see it, and promote peace and equality to the extent we can. Whether someone believes in God or doesn't makes little difference to me as long as their behavior isn't to the determent of society.


  3. #43
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    Likes Tater, tinker683 liked this post

  4. #44
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    Atheist. Right-handed.

    If I were left-handed, I imagine it would give me more reason to reconsider arguments made by Christian apologists. Why would a "perfect" god create people to have such abberations? The Christianity's historical stigma against the "left" and left-hands wouldn't do me any favors either.

    In many religions, including Christianity, the right hand of God is the favored hand. For example, Jesus sits at God's right side. God's left hand, however, is the hand of judgement. The Archangel Gabriel is sometimes called "God's left hand", sits at God's left side, and is one of six angels of death. Those who fall from favor with God are sent to left, as described in Matthew 25: 32–33, in which sheep represent the righteous and goats represent the fallen: "And he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right, but the goats on his left." In 19th-century Europe, homosexuals were referred to as "left-handed".[9] In Protestant-majority parts of the United Kingdom, Catholics were called "left-footers", and vice versa in Catholic-majority parts of Ireland and Irish America.[10] Black magic is sometimes referred to as the "left-hand path", which is strongly associated with Satanism.[citation needed]
    Social reasons to consider before making the assumption that left-handed genetics determine the outcome of belief.

  5. #45
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    Atheism is a way of seeing the world. It does not operate at the level of genetics, rather it operates at the level of meaning.

  6. #46
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    The idea of left-handedness having any correlation toward a persons disposition toward atheism sounds like a giant red herring to me. Certainly, I think genetics could predispose someone toward one method of thinking or another but in the hell does left handedness have anything to do with anything?

    I am right handed and was an atheist for most of my adult life. I became an atheist because I felt at the time that I had no need for spirituality in my life so, like Dan Barker once said, I 'gave it up' and I remained for many years.. When I started my journey a year ago to reconsider and rediscover my own spirituality, it was a purely personal choice and had nothing to do with "logic" or "fact". I genuinely have no idea if a God exists, I genuinely have no idea if an entity of some kind hears my prayers or pays any attention at all to me at a worship service. I do it anything because it gives me a "something" that I have yet to be able to sufficiently articulate.

    None of that however has anything to do with my motor skills or what hand I use to do what. Casting atheists as genetics oddities is meaningless demagoguery
    Deered to kill a king's dare

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