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  1. #11
    clever fool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by that's not my name View Post

    My comment was never about the science of the study.
    Ah, alright.

    We aren't arguing the same thing then.

    My comment was about the science of the study, yours seemed more about a conclusions you drew:

    I said that people who are deemed abnormal for whatever reason and find themselves on the outside are more likely to question societal norms as a result.
    I agree, but my comment was about the neutrality of the article. "What is the connection?", then seems like a fair question.
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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Of course they are deemed abnormal because they question social norms. Thats' what it means to be "abnormal" is to question or reject social norms.

    I think what they are saying is that conformity to collective, organized religion and social norms in pre-industrilized society was more likely to cause survival of those individuals who adhered to said religion and norms, given that so many factors could cause death, those people who had collectivist morals had more of chance to survive because this was a pragmatic approach. I'm just saying I question the way in which the article was written as lacking neutrality, not so much the conclusions they draw.

    For example, they seem to be saying that "genetic mutants" are somehow defective or something, furthermore this has to do with pre-industrialized society so I don't know how these value judgements could apply today.

    Traditional religious beliefs are less necessary to the survival of individuals in our society, this isn't good or bad, it simply is. They were more necessary in older societies, again, this is just how it was. We can draw value judgements about this, but then it ceases to be science.
    Mutant is another term of endearment righties use for south paws. Charming isn’t it? All the more reason I rebelled in elementary school when they attempted to ‘correct my condition’. Fuck that. Lefty and proud mofo’s! When we take over I’ll try and show mercy and understanding.

    Edit: Partly a joke but they were still trying to dissuade left handed children to be left hand dominant when I was in grade school. They did everything short of tying my hand behind my back. I’m sure they would’ve if it hadn’t been considered abuse by that time.
    ”The Future’s So Bright, I Gotta Wear Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses.”
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  3. #13
    was here that's not my name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Ah, alright.

    We aren't arguing the same thing then.

    My comment was about the science of the study, yours seemed more about a conclusions you drew:



    I agree, but my comment was about the neutrality of the article. "What is the connection?", then seems like a fair question.
    It is a fair question. Sorry for not being clear.
    Life is a work of art.
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  4. #14
    Complex paradigm Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by that's not my name View Post
    It seems logical though, that those who are deemed abnormal are more likely to question societal norms.

    Yes, but here you have chicken and the egg problem.
    Are they deemded abnormal because they are questioning social norms or they are questioning the norms because someone simply decided one day that they are not normal ?


    Plus my bet is that all of this is just a subtle way to trash atheism. Which is actually older than any of the modern religions if you judge by science, which this whole story tries to maintain as the starting point.
    Also if atheism is consequence of mutation then very good chunk of people in my country as well as many political parties are the consequence of genetic mutations ... as well as majority in various countries that have atheist majority. What I simply don't find to be realistic. Modern atheism was created simply because religious authorty was horrible towards people in the terms of constant abuse, denying food, slavery, genocide, sexual abuse etc (or it was in the bed with authority that was doing those kinds of things). Plus there were people who though that basing the whole society around ideas for which there is little to no concrete proof was actually bad idea. However religion in general never managed to cope with this rejection and therefore you constantly have various theories that are trying to prove that atheists aren't even humans.


    When you read the link in the first post there are basically no claims that are scientific and that are trying to go deeper into the issue (the whole claim is basically "take my word for it"). It is true that normal people know very little about genetics and from what I have seen that is being abused in all kinds of ways. However no one is ever trying to explain a little bit more thoroughly such claims and therefore it is reasonable to have doubts about such claims. Especially since the tone seems like trashing for the sake of trashing. (atheist are genetically mutated, atheists can't survive without modern technology (since they are weak or something), atheism somewhat correlates with autism ... )

    All I really see here is badly packed propaganda, to be honest.
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  5. #15
    was here that's not my name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    Yes, but here you have chicken and the egg problem.
    Are they deemded abnormal because they are questioning social norms or they are questioning the norms because someone simply decided one day that they are not normal ?
    I already addressed this.

    Plus my bet is that all of this is just a subtle way to trash atheism.
    Okay. I don't, and I think that there is a big problem in todays society with people trying to find a reason to be offended.
    Modern atheism was created simply because religious authorty was horrible towards people in the terms of constant abuse, denying food, slavery, genocide, sexual abuse etc (or it was in the bed with authority that was doing those kinds of things). Plus there were people who though that basing the whole society around ideas for which there is little to no concrete proof was actually bad idea.
    Sounds like you're trying to create a simple explanation to complex development. It reveals more about you than anything. Your reason is not necessarily the reason.
    However religion in general never managed to cope with this rejection and therefore you constantly have various theories that are trying to prove that atheists aren't even humans.
    I think you're trying to take offense to this.

    When you read the link in the first post there are basically no claims that are scientific and that are trying to go deeper into the issue (the whole claim is basically "take my word for it").
    Again, like I told the guy before you, my comment had nothing to do with the science behind the article.
    (atheist are genetically mutated, atheists can't survive without modern technology (since they are weak or something), atheism somewhat correlates with autism ... )
    Thats not what I said or implied and I don't think the study is implying that, at least not directly either. Stop being offended at things that weren't said, or if you are going to be, direct it to someone other than me, because I don't care.
    Life is a work of art.

  6. #16
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    I think this is a wildly poor inference from what's likely a weak correlation anyway, my brother is left handed and he's as religious as I am, I know plenty of religious people who are left handed and I was not aware that left handedness was genetically determined in any case. I think its a poor idea to suggest that religious views and convictions are genetically determined, it would mean that culture or anything else was pointless, no tradition or intergenerational memory or learning could exist on that basis or matter either.

    The stronger one between autism and being non-religious is interesting, mainly because I hear autism being linked with more and more things these days, links between autism and homosexuality, trangender or other LGBT identity politics, links between autism and trolling or trends in opinions online. Sometimes I think I'd like to know more about autism if its going to prove so significant or pivotal but then again I wonder if its likely to prove to be one of those logical fallacies that I think some varieties of groupthink engage in, over estimating the wider social impact or importance of all matters pertaining to or involving themselves.

  7. #17
    Complex paradigm Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by that's not my name View Post
    I already addressed this.


    Okay. I don't, and I think that there is a big problem in todays society with people trying to find a reason to be offended.

    Sounds like you're trying to create a simple explanation to complex development. It reveals more about you than anything. Your reason is not necessarily the reason.

    I think you're trying to take offense to this.


    Again, like I told the guy before you, my comment had nothing to do with the science behind the article.

    Thats not what I said or implied and I don't think the study is implying that, at least not directly either. Stop being offended at things that weren't said, or if you are going to be, direct it to someone other than me, because I don't care.

    Don't worry I was simply finding a way how to jump into this thread and for some reason I have started from your post. (and I started to type while the thread was much smaller)


    I simply posted what I think, I really don't find any of this to be worthy of "serious emotional engagment".

  8. #18
    was here that's not my name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    Don't worry I was simply finding a way how to jump into this thread and for some reason I have started from your post. (and I started to type while the thread was much smaller)


    I simply posted what I think, I really don't find any of this to be worthy of "serious emotional engagment".
    Oh ok, carry on then. I'm used to trying to shut people down quickly because the quality of conversation at perC is not as high or as honest in intent.
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  9. #19
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    I'm ambidextrous, atheist, and anti-theist.

  10. #20
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Population: 1 View Post
    Mutant is another term of endearment righties use for south paws. Charming isn’t it? All the more reason I rebelled in elementary school when they attempted to ‘correct my condition’. Fuck that. Lefty and proud mofo’s! When we take over I’ll try and show mercy and understanding.

    Edit: Partly a joke but they were still trying to dissuade left handed children to be left hand dominant when I was in grade school. They did everything short of tying my hand behind my back. I’m sure they would’ve if it hadn’t been considered abuse by that time.
    I have a mutant husband and two children. None of them are atheists or autistic.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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