It seems to me that a great deal of the political issues prominent in the 21st century center around the concept of equality. I suppose, then, it might be a useful exercise to see what other people might describe as equality. I suppose I'm curious about people's answers to the following questions. (This isn't intended as a debate thread, and is intended more along the lines of figuring out what people actually think.) Please don't link to YouTube videos from various internet celebrities; I wish to know what you yourself think in your own words, although quotations are fine.
- Is equality of opportunity important?
- Equality of outcome?
- Is equality a simple matter of treating everyone the same, or does it happen to be something more complex?
- Do you think your psychological type plays a role in your conceptions of equality?
- Is equality in general even important? Why, or why not?
- What are the biggest barriers to equality?
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Thread: Equality
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12-22-2017, 08:36 PM #1
Equality
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12-22-2017, 08:52 PM #2
Is equality of opportunity important?
Y
Equality of outcome?
What exactly is meant by outcome?
Is equality a simple matter of treating everyone the same, or does it happen to be something more complex?
Complex-er.
Do you think your psychological type plays a role in your conceptions of equality?
No. I also think most people are simple-minded enough that their type has nothing to do with it.
Is equality in general even important? Why, or why not?
...Aside from moral reasons, it also appears to be the most sustainable model with regards to business management in the long run.
Not that I give a shit about businesses, but it has implications for society.
What are the biggest barriers to equality?
Where I'm from, the lack of equality laws. I think human rights, except for the right to property insofar as right to property contradicts rights to congregation and freedom, as well as the ineffectiveness of protecting rights without affiliation to a national state recognising said rights, is generally the right direction. Rights are also useless without consciousness of societal duty towards its constituents.Do we want to remind you of something? Yes: the world is good and we belong here.
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12-24-2017, 02:14 AM #3
Yes, I think for a society to be its most productive there needs to be equality of opportunity (in the legal sense), so that people who are better suited for certain things can find their way to doing those things if they choose.
[*]Equality of outcome?
[*]Is equality a simple matter of treating everyone the same, or does it happen to be something more complex?
[*]Do you think your psychological type plays a role in your conceptions of equality?
[*]Is equality in general even important? Why, or why not?
[*]What are the biggest barriers to equality?Xann liked this post
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12-26-2017, 06:15 PM #4
This is a good topic that deserves a long response, but I am still summoning up the force of will to exert myself in a long post.
Nature uses only the longest threads to weave her patterns, so that each small piece of her fabric reveals the organization of the entire tapestry. -Richard P. Feynman
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12-28-2017, 02:43 AM #5
It's a moral imperative. To deny it, either actively or passively, means that some person or group has taken it upon themselves to set the limits of another's aspiration.
Equality of outcome?
Is equality a simple matter of treating everyone the same, or does it happen to be something more complex?
It's about being mindful of maintaining a form of relationship between people that allows for the basic dignity of everyone in that relationship. The heart of inequality is enforced submission of one to another (slavery); the heart of equality is universal freedom - the dignity of freedom. The enforced equality and the passive inequality of totalitarian Communism and 19th century High Capitalism were both forms of freedom-denying and dignity-denying bondage. Bondage persists in varying degrees of force, subtlety and intentionality as per the economic conditions (the exclusion of modern young British people from home ownership and accumulation of capital and the passive failure to fully address it).
Do you think your psychological type plays a role in your conceptions of equality?
What are the biggest barriers to equality?
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12-28-2017, 11:34 AM #6
I think equality of outcome is a cancer that will eat away at the foundations of a society.
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12-28-2017, 11:54 AM #7
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I think a lot of people don't even fully grasp the concept of equality, to the point it's become another buzzword people toss about without fully considering.
-I would answer that equality of opportunity is desirable, while equality of outcome, while it would be nice, is not a desirable goal so long as the means outweigh the ends in their harm.
-In terms of treating everyone with the same base level of respect, I think that's a good approach.
Have you looked into terms like "luck egalitarianism"?
I think equality has become oversimplified as a term, probably most "moderate" people inbetween political extremes wouldn't mind some basic form of equality, but it seems that a lot of people have drastically different ideas of what the end product of perfect equality might even look like.our preferences do not determine what's true. -Sagan
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12-28-2017, 01:06 PM #8Is equality of opportunity important?
Equality of outcome?
Is equality a simple matter of treating everyone the same, or does it happen to be something more complex?
Do you think your psychological type plays a role in your conceptions of equality?
Is equality in general even important? Why, or why not?
What are the biggest barriers to equality?
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12-28-2017, 03:13 PM #9
The more opportunity we have, the more we allow the best matches of people to interests, jobs, and/or one another to happen more naturally. Supply/demand-ish systems work best when opportunities and people can actually be matched. Opportunity means removing artificial barriers, especially the barriers of entry. That's good for self-actualization, productivity, moving forward as a society.. you name it: personal fulfillment self-organizing to societal fulfillment. Barriers to opportunity just clip perfectly good wings.
The ideal is for everyone to have infinite opportunity: the easiest way for that sort of matching to occur. You know, access to every single bit of information, resources, how-to guides, religious texts, collective wisdom, job postings, etc. that's out there. But finite is all we've got.
Finite equal opportunity, as a goal in and of itself, is only good if (a) you're looking at life as a track meet or (b) prioritizing fairness above all else. If you were God, you could make opportunity equal across the board by seizing everyone's assets and handing everyone a $10 bill. "Here's what everyone starts with. Good luck!" That simply clips everyone's wings, but hey -- equal opportunity!
But, again, finite is all we've got. How do we approach (maybe even approximate) infinite opportunity with what we have, then? How do we square reality with fairness? What's fair -- do we distribute our finite resources or not? To what degree? That's where economic systems, policies, laws, (hopefully equal) enforcement of those laws, etc. come into play.
But equal outcomes? No. Hell no. Just set it all up right and see how it shakes out.J. Scott Crothers
Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
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Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics
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"Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."- Elevenetics
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12-28-2017, 03:35 PM #10
I think people tend to take anyone saying <something> is a cancer less seriously than they would had another word been chosen.
Equal outcomes are a ridiculous expectation. We have finite opportunities but they aren't managed or available in an equal way, they never have been. Starting by acknowledging that fact might be a better conversation than anything else right now.I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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