User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 20

  1. #1

    Default U.S. religion is increasingly polarized

    There’s both inspiring and troubling news for holiday worshippers.

    Unlike other historically Christian Western nations, the United States is not losing its religion, say sociologists Landon Schnabel of Indiana University Bloomington and Sean Bock of Harvard University. But America is becoming as polarized religiously as it is politically, the researchers report online November 27 in Sociological Science.

    Intense forms of religion, such as Christian evangelicalism, have maintained their popularity for nearly 30 years, Schnabel and Bock find after analyzing almost 30 years of U.S. survey data. At the same time, moderate forms of religion, such as mainline Protestantism, have consistently lost followers.

    Religious moderates’ exodus from their churches stems partly from a growing link between religion and conservative politics, exemplified by the rise of the religious right in the late 1980s, the researchers suspect. Political liberals and moderates who already felt lukewarm toward the religion of their parents increasingly report identifying with no organized religion, especially if leaders of their childhood churches have taken conservative stances on social issues. Many Americans still report that they believe in God and pray, so they haven’t turned to atheism, the scientists say.

    Population trends also favor intense forms of religion, Schnabel holds. Mainline Protestantism’s decline from 35 percent of the U.S. population in 1972 — about 73.5 million people — to 12 percent in 2016 — nearly 39 million people — reflects low fertility rates among these Protestants and limited numbers of new adherents from immigration and conversion. Opposite trends among U.S. evangelicals helped their form of intense Christianity surge from 18 percent of the population in 1972 to a steady level of about 28 percent from 1989 to 2016.

    “More moderate forms of organized religion could become increasingly irrelevant in the United States,” Schnabel says.

    The new findings play into an academic debate about the fate of religion in modern societies. Some scholars argue that in wealthy nations marked by scientific advances, religion inevitably withers. National surveys in 13 other Western, historically Christian nations show a general weakening of religious beliefs, even among intense believers, since 1991, the researchers find. But Schnabel and Bock are among those who view the United States as an exception where intense religion holds steady and even many of those leaving churches keep their faith.

    The researchers examined data from nationally representative surveys on religion and other topics conducted from 1989 to 2016 by the General Social Survey, or GSS, a project of the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago. GSS surveys include approximately 1,500 people annually.
    Continued at...

    Https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...ngly-polarized
    "Ce que nous connaissons est peu de chose, ce que nous ignorons est immense."
    Likes Typh0n, LucieCat liked this post

  2. #2
    clever fool Typh0n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,538

    Default

    This isn't really news to me. The evangelical types in the US were already very popular when I lived there, it doesn't seem like they've gone away.

    Why would it go away? The gospel is good business. Ask Benni Hinn and his ilk, for example. Since the gospel is a business for evangelicals, the Republican party with its mix of capitalism and social conservatism is the perfect platform for that. Ceecee posted an article a while back about how 30-40 years ago evangelicalism had become mixed up with self-improvement and the self-made mentality of capitalism, to the point that Christianity had become a kind of self-development program for many conservative Christians. Which isn't at all what the Christian message was about. It has become by an odd twist of events, associated with American conservatism. And now it looks like it has always been that way. But Christianity is compatible with many (though not all) politcal philosophies, and "conservatism" is a term which refers to relatively little, it's just the way society perceives the past to be. The trick is for elites to give people the impression things have always been this way or that, and many folks won't question it because "that's the way it's always been", without trying to find out the answers for themselves.

    Now I'll stop and leave you with a little F242.


  3. #3
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    14,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    This isn't really news to me. The evangelical types in the US were already very popular when I lived there, it doesn't seem like they've gone away.

    Why would it go away? The gospel is good business. Ask Benni Hinn and his ilk, for example. Since the gospel is a business for evangelicals, the Republican party with its mix of capitalism and social conservatism is the perfect platform for that. Ceecee posted an article a while back about how 30-40 years ago evangelicalism had become mixed up with self-improvement and the self-made mentality of capitalism, to the point that Christianity had become a kind of self-development program for many conservative Christians. Which isn't at all what the Christian message was about. It has become by an odd twist of events, associated with American conservatism. And now it looks like it has always been that way. But Christianity is compatible with many (though not all) politcal philosophies, and "conservatism" is a term which refers to relatively little, it's just the way society perceives the past to be. The trick is for elites to give people the impression things have always been this way or that, and many folks won't question it because "that's the way it's always been", without trying to find out the answers for themselves.

    Now I'll stop and leave you with a little F242.

    These promote virtually everything contrary to scriptures. It's also where "prosperity theology" came from. It isn't new but in the 1980's and 1990's it exploded and everyone knows the worst offenders - Oral Roberts, Robert Tilton, Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen and so on. If you aren't making enough money, you're clearly not close enough to god. These are nothing but organized crime syndicates. They produce and sell nothing and because it's a faith and a church, they operate free of taxes as well.

    The prosperity gospel, explained: Why Joel Osteen believes that prayer can make you rich - Vox

    Many have taken the next step in bilking an entirely gullible segment of the population and moved into "survival kits from God" such as Jim Bakker (no Tammy Faye anymore). Not that there is anything wrong with being prepared - I've long practiced it. But I've done it, amazingly, without the help of a church, of god or anyone but myself. Which is exactly the point of SELF-sufficiency.

    Survival Products | The Jim Bakker Show Store
    Emergency Food Buckets | The Jim Bakker Show Store
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
    Likes Typh0n liked this post

  4. #4
    ornery ornithologist citizen cane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    BIRD
    Enneagram
    631 sp
    Posts
    3,802

    Default

    And this is surprising to anyone how?

  5. #5
    clever fool Typh0n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,538

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    These promote virtually everything contrary to scriptures. It's also where "prosperity theology" came from. It isn't new but in the 1980's and 1990's it exploded and everyone knows the worst offenders - Oral Roberts, Robert Tilton, Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen and so on. If you aren't making enough money, you're clearly not close enough to god. These are nothing but organized crime syndicates. They produce and sell nothing and because it's a faith and a church, they operate free of taxes as well.

    The prosperity gospel, explained: Why Joel Osteen believes that prayer can make you rich - Vox

    Many have taken the next step in bilking an entirely gullible segment of the population and moved into "survival kits from God" such as Jim Bakker (no Tammy Faye anymore). Not that there is anything wrong with being prepared - I've long practiced it. But I've done it, amazingly, without the help of a church, of god or anyone but myself. Which is exactly the point of SELF-sufficiency.

    Survival Products | The Jim Bakker Show Store
    Emergency Food Buckets | The Jim Bakker Show Store
    Exactly. Why do you need a church or God if you can do it yourself? That's the wholepoint of self-sufficiency. And that's fine.

    But it seems a religion like Christianity (which btw I am not a huge fan of, at least not in its organised forms) would at least theoretically be about something bigger than just yourself, like maybe service to humanity. That seems like Jesus's message right there, certainly not making money so you can give it to the church.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sp/so
    Posts
    675

    Default

    I've noticed this since I was in my early teens. Well maybe because I am one of the aforementioned Christians who has distanced herself from religion because of not liking how politicized evangelical Christianity. I suppose it might come as surprising to non-Americans.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Ace_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    TNT
    Posts
    233

    Default

    I'll never understand why out of all the prosperous nations USA is the most religious.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    29,990

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    These promote virtually everything contrary to scriptures. It's also where "prosperity theology" came from. It isn't new but in the 1980's and 1990's it exploded and everyone knows the worst offenders - Oral Roberts, Robert Tilton, Creflo Dollar, Joel Osteen and so on. If you aren't making enough money, you're clearly not close enough to god. These are nothing but organized crime syndicates. They produce and sell nothing and because it's a faith and a church, they operate free of taxes as well.

    The prosperity gospel, explained: Why Joel Osteen believes that prayer can make you rich - Vox

    Many have taken the next step in bilking an entirely gullible segment of the population and moved into "survival kits from God" such as Jim Bakker (no Tammy Faye anymore). Not that there is anything wrong with being prepared - I've long practiced it. But I've done it, amazingly, without the help of a church, of god or anyone but myself. Which is exactly the point of SELF-sufficiency.

    Survival Products | The Jim Bakker Show Store
    Emergency Food Buckets | The Jim Bakker Show Store

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    29,990

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace_ View Post
    I'll never understand why out of all the prosperous nations USA is the most religious.
    Alexis de Tocqueville - Wikipedia

    Is it because you believe that religion should not equate to prosperity or development?

    If it where then it would be evidence of just how often and easily secular ideology is internalised as fact instead of it being a relatively recent aglomeration of irreligious or anti-religious prejudices.

    What is wrong is that religion at its worse is so often just represented as religion per se, which I feel is very unfortunate and a very much a contributing factor to the trending of certain styles of religion rather than others, what the OP's article labels as "moderate" and "immorderate" or "extreme", which I think can be as inaccurate when applied to Christianity as when applied to Islam.

    The attack on religion in the west, failure to provide any good alternative in the form of a positive ideology, failure to differentiate between good and bad religion, at the same time as post-communism there has been a ramping of political islam and what I would call the embrace of religion in a sort of instrumental fashion by the far right (which is really just an embrace of sectarianism rather than religion proper), it is all a sign of deterioration.

    The thing about it is that I dont believe there's even really the tools in terms of intellect, will, affect regulation/patience and balance, to critically evaluate the whole thing.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    29,990

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Exactly. Why do you need a church or God if you can do it yourself? That's the wholepoint of self-sufficiency. And that's fine.

    But it seems a religion like Christianity (which btw I am not a huge fan of, at least not in its organised forms) would at least theoretically be about something bigger than just yourself, like maybe service to humanity. That seems like Jesus's message right there, certainly not making money so you can give it to the church.
    See, this post is a very good illustration of why people can not think about religion, its just considered a social construct, an imaginary idea, so basically you may as well be talking about someone's imaginary friend or a fantasy fandom, such as Star Wars, Star Trek or Lord of The Rings.

    Which is not the case. There is an objective cosmic order whether you choose an awareness of it or not, its probably a good thing that for the most part practical reason kicks in and you dont become convinced that gravity is just a social construct and try to test that one out.

    The thing about objecting to "organised" religion or "organisation" in terms of religion, its an old one which has been repeated in terms of every ideological innovation or development since, its one of those perennial things which is dismissed too easily, if you'd like to read a liberal, feminist, left wing version of the dilemma you could find a copy of "The Tyranny of Structurelessness" or the lousy response to it "The Tyranny of Tyranny" which is a good representation of its opposite.

    You could then consider, if you want, the role of tradition in transmitting social learning or "memory" across generations, how that translates into cultures and institutions, it should be balanced with innovation or fresh insight but it remains a thing and consider whether spontaneity or "chaotic" mediums could achieve a result at all. Then consider the consequences for a society of not possessing those things, maybe just per se or perhaps in competition or contrast with other societies, think 40 First Dates without any nice helpful family or love interest to look after the central character but instead evil, exploitative pimp types.

    The alignment matrixes of AD&D between evil/good and lawful/chaotic are pretty good when considering these things, that is a backdrop of high fantasy post-apocalypse, ie order has been defeated, at least lawful good order, and is only ever an emergent or competiting force among others, in terms of culture it could describe a post-modernism or perhaps what gives rise to post-modernism.

    Anyway, I've rambled on a bit there.

Similar Threads

  1. religion is a cop out
    By miss fortune in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 01-31-2012, 06:17 PM
  2. The central question of religion is not the existence of God?
    By Lark in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-25-2012, 04:16 PM
  3. Religion is a universal
    By Lark in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 10-28-2011, 07:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO