Religious and Sexual Fantasies

[Mole]

Roman Catholics in Australia are very keen to share with children their fantasy of a three headed God who created the universe. So perhaps it is no surprise to discover they also were keen to share their sexual fantasies with the same children. And indeed the Australian Royal Commission into Child Abuse has found the Roman Catholic Church has raped thousands of Australian children. At the same time the Church has protected its property values by ensuring that none of their victims can sue the Church for damages.

 

[sLiPpY]

It's not just the Roman Catholics: What Is It About Religion That Fosters Abuse? - VICE

 

[Mole]

It's not just the Roman Catholics: What Is It About Religion That Fosters Abuse? - VICE

Not just Christians, all three Abrahamic religions have pedophiles with issues in their midst.

This is true but the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse found that Roman Catholic institutions were the worst offenders. And what you say about other institutions, both religious and secular, is true.

And what is it about religion that fosters abuse? Religion relies on entrancing its followers, and it is only a short step from the entrancement of religion to the entrancement of sex.

 

[Lark]

I've reported this thread and I am seriously considering leaving this forum once and for all if this is the sort of thing which is fine these days.

 

[FlagellumDei]

[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] curious, is Hollywood and Politics similar to the Catholic Church, because they seem to like to abuse and rape women, men and children too.

[MENTION=7280]Survive & Stay Free[/MENTION] my observation has been that the Catholic church has been undermined from within for quite a while now, the latest pope being a prime example as someone who is moving away from the catholic foundation and reinterpreting things from a modern perspective (heresy? subversion?) For some reason similar to the above (Holywood, politics) certain positions within it's hierarchy attract predatory people. This is a legitimate concern, I fear we may be losing one of our civilization's pillars due to internal rot.

 

[sLiPpY]

It does seem this is a peak period for all of the societal drama to arise. Definitely a lamentable subject, but as FlagellumDei pointed out a legitimate concern.

 

[Lark]

[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] curious, is Hollywood and Politics similar to the Catholic Church, because they seem to like to abuse and rape women, men and children too.

[MENTION=7280]Survive & Stay Free[/MENTION] my observation has been that the Catholic church has been undermined from within for quite a while now, the latest pope being a prime example as someone who is moving away from the catholic foundation and reinterpreting things from a modern perspective (heresy? subversion?) For some reason similar to the above (Holywood, politics) certain positions within it's hierarchy attract predatory people. This is a legitimate concern, I fear we may be losing one of our civilization's pillars due to internal rot.

I dont believe that the RCC has been undermined by Pope Francis at all, I'm very positive about the present Pope, despite not accepting the revisions to the order of mass and responses for the congregation (I just dont say them, I say the ones I know by heart from my youth) but I do think the RCC has been undermined by predators, predators who've seen an opportunity and taken it, they are rife in other walks of life too and the focus upon clerical abuse has allowed them to migrate to other walks of life and carry on their habitual or compulsive abuse of vulnerable or unsuspecting adults and children while everyone's attention is diverted by clerical abuse scandals.

If the church had been willing to apply some inquisitorial powers when it came to the problem of predators within its ranks, the surest and worst sort of heresy I can imagine, then I believe it would be much, much stronger for it and popular with its congregations, probably drawing support and not struggling to interest or entice people by repeating the fashionable opinions of the moment.

The secular responses to abuse will no doubt prove to be just as lousy as those employed by the religious institutions, I dont know how that will play out, I wouldnt predict it, although I would say that it'll be disappointing when its properly understood, the hopes and belief people are willing to invest in the state will eventually all prove to be gravely in error I'm sure. Although what I think most of the posting about the RCC on this forum and elsewhere proves to me is that anti-catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice, there's reasons for that, its seen as an impersonal institution rather than a community of believers, but its how it is.

 

[FlagellumDei]

I dont believe that the RCC has been undermined by Pope Francis at all, I'm very positive about the present Pope, despite not accepting the revisions to the order of mass and responses for the congregation (I just dont say them, I say the ones I know by heart from my youth) but I do think the RCC has been undermined by predators, predators who've seen an opportunity and taken it, they are rife in other walks of life too and the focus upon clerical abuse has allowed them to migrate to other walks of life and carry on their habitual or compulsive abuse of vulnerable or unsuspecting adults and children while everyone's attention is diverted by clerical abuse scandals.

I'm not catholic, but my father (banished for marrying a Calvinist) and grandparents are. From what I understood Pope Francis has fueled to the Sedivacantist position some catholics hold (mostly in secret). Central-East European nations such as Hungary and Poland are in open defiance of the RCC and the pope is accused even in Italy by Vittorio Messori of 'liquifying' the Gospel itself similar to what the Protestants have done. Catholic scholars have also accused the Pope of spreading heresy.

If the church had been willing to apply some inquisitorial powers when it came to the problem of predators within its ranks, the surest and worst sort of heresy I can imagine, then I believe it would be much, much stronger for it and popular with its congregations, probably drawing support and not struggling to interest or entice people by repeating the fashionable opinions of the moment.

The secular responses to abuse will no doubt prove to be just as lousy as those employed by the religious institutions, I dont know how that will play out, I wouldnt predict it, although I would say that it'll be disappointing when its properly understood, the hopes and belief people are willing to invest in the state will eventually all prove to be gravely in error I'm sure. Although what I think most of the posting about the RCC on this forum and elsewhere proves to me is that anti-catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice, there's reasons for that, its seen as an impersonal institution rather than a community of believers, but its how it is.

For sure, anti Christian or even anti-religious sentiment seems to be fashionable these days, although I suspect to a lesser degree than last year. It seems to be in decline as people grapple with the necessity of a moral and social foundation that holds them together. It is lamentable that secular humanism has failed to provide a viable alternative, but it can be easily argued, that Christianity is failing at this task as well for similar reasons, something that is even more lamentable.

 

[Lark]

I'm not catholic, but my father (banished for marrying a Calvinist) and grandparents are. From what I understood Pope Francis has fueled to the Sedivacantist position some catholics hold (mostly in secret). Central-East European nations such as Hungary and Poland are in open defiance of the RCC and the pope is accused even in Italy by Vittorio Messori of 'liquifying' the Gospel itself similar to what the Protestants have done. Catholic scholars have also accused the Pope of spreading heresy.



For sure, anti Christian or even anti-religious sentiment seems to be fashionable these days, although I suspect to a lesser degree than last year. It seems to be in decline as people grapple with the necessity of a moral and social foundation that holds them together. It is lamentable that secular humanism has failed to provide a viable alternative, but it can be easily argued, that Christianity is failing at this task as well for similar reasons, something that is even more lamentable.

Human, all too human.

Anyway, I dont believe that Francis is a heretic, I think its rank disobedience and disloyalty to suggest so too. They wherent singing that tune when Benedict was mismanaging things.

 

[deathwarmedup]

[MENTION=3325]

[MENTION=7280] For some reason similar to the above (Holywood, politics) certain positions within it's hierarchy attract predatory people. .

Sort of off-topic but .... I think those positions present otherwise morally "neutral" people with tremendous temptations.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

Sedivacantist position

This is interesting. Thank you.

 

[FlagellumDei]

Sort of off-topic but .... I think those positions present otherwise morally "neutral" people with tremendous temptations.

My hypothesis is that these positions offer sexual predators opportunities to interact with their prey or otherwise give the predator certain ability to cover their tracks (power), so it is opportunism. As a catholic priest you are surrounded by kids and protected by the church, in Hollywood you are bound to work with kids and morally questionable parents as well as people who are desperate for attention and "to make it big". These are perfect conditions for something like this to happen and its not only limited to these institutions. Ofc the RCC in this case seems to be under attack as well by secular humanists in order to undermine it"s authority, but to what degree I don"t know.

There was this town in England, I forgot the name, where thousands of little girls have been groomed for and raped. The authorities knew, the locals knew and nobody did anything. Thats similar to the pattern in Hollywood. Ppl even joked about it at the Oscars a few years back, everyone knew, but for some reason or another they all shut up about it. I find this rather disturbing.

 

[Coriolis]

Human, all too human.

Anyway, I dont believe that Francis is a heretic, I think its rank disobedience and disloyalty to suggest so too. They wherent singing that tune when Benedict was mismanaging things.

Francis seems to "walk the walk" much more than other authorities in the church, and in short be more like Jesus, which seems to have been lost in many quarters, perhaps even generations. I owe the Catholic church neither my loyalty nor my obedience, and have this opinion based on what Francis has actually done and said as Pope.

 

[ceecee]

Francis seems to "walk the walk" much more than other authorities in the church, and in short be more like Jesus, which seems to have been lost in many quarters, perhaps even generations. I owe the Catholic church neither my loyalty nor my obedience, and have this opinion based on what Francis has actually done and said as Pope.

All this. But I have respect for Francis because he has an excellent grasp of what's right and what's wrong and yeah, he certainly walks the walk. It's not going to change my personal stance on the church but it's a bit of a ray of light in an otherwise dark and corrupt entity.

But why does religion (none is worse than the other) foster abuse like this? I would say fear more than anything. It's the most effective way to control a population. But that's cultural in every way. Authoritarian based anything is going to use fear. And separatism. And a unquestioned social hierarchy. See anything similar? It's a well read nation building blueprint.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

Francis seems to "walk the walk" much more than other authorities in the church, and in short be more like Jesus, which seems to have been lost in many quarters, perhaps even generations. I owe the Catholic church neither my loyalty nor my obedience, and have this opinion based on what Francis has actually done and said as Pope.

Could you elaborate what this "walk" entails and cite the Bible?

Could you cite in the Bible this "walk" of Christ wherein the current Pope follows?

What are your "beliefs?"

 

[Lark]

Francis seems to "walk the walk" much more than other authorities in the church, and in short be more like Jesus, which seems to have been lost in many quarters, perhaps even generations. I owe the Catholic church neither my loyalty nor my obedience, and have this opinion based on what Francis has actually done and said as Pope.

This is a cliched, heavily cliched, view which I'm just tired of encountering, I do think that Francis is a typical Jesuit, and maybe that could be what you are saying, however, many of his views are simply temporal or worldly moralism, which is fine, good even, but its not really, nor could I at this point in my reading and religious reflection, say is much more than precisely that.

If I thought all that was needed to be a leader of the church was to be pseudo-liberal or have a positive view of social justice then there would be more people qualified for religious leadership than not, you could even switch or change the Dali Lama for the Pope and it would mean or make little difference, you know?

To be honest, I find the way in which public opinion, particularly liberal opinion, towards the RCC has changed in response to Pope Francis has not particularly impressed me, it actually has made me think just how easy it would be for people with totally opposing value matrices to popularise themselves with people simply by choosing the right words, poses and public relations.

 

[FlagellumDei]

FYI:

 

[Lark]

2hrs 37mins this thread has been suffered to live.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] curious, is Hollywood and Politics similar to the Catholic Church, because they seem to like to abuse and rape women, men and children too.

You forgot an academia wrought with "rape" (among other sexual perversions), which they admit to/boast themselves. Marching in the streets professing Pride in such things.

One could say: "The Secular Church"

Ironic, considering Pride is the fall of Satan. The same ones who cheer the erection of Baphomet in place of the Ten Commandments while vehemently denying the existence of Satan.

Without a solid foundation of The Way (Objective Truth), they remain subjectively confused about the most basic of things (biological reproduction).

 

[Coriolis]

Could you elaborate what this "walk" entails and cite the Bible?

Could you cite in the Bible this "walk" of Christ wherein the current Pope follows?

What are your "beliefs?"

I do not have time for writing an essay with citations. Jesus is well-known for reaching out to the poor and marginalized, for going against social and cultural norms, and for putting compassion before slavish adherence to the letter of the law. In fact, he simplified that law to the basic injunction to love God and your neighbor. This is what I see Francis demonstrating, not just preaching.

I am not sure what you mean by "beliefs" (as opposed to just beliefs, without quotes).

This is a cliched, heavily cliched, view which I'm just tired of encountering, I do think that Francis is a typical Jesuit, and maybe that could be what you are saying, however, many of his views are simply temporal or worldly moralism, which is fine, good even, but its not really, nor could I at this point in my reading and religious reflection, say is much more than precisely that.

You are missing the point. I really don't know much about what Francis says. I am looking more at what he does - that's the walk vs. the talk. Anyone can talk and can say anything, really. It's what they do that counts. As for Jesuits, I always viewed them as scholars and even lawgivers. This is not the impression I have of Francis. He seems much more practical, hands-on with the ordinary people.