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The Spiritual Crisis in America

Lark

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This view of the universe as evil was hardly universal among gnostics, nor was the exclusivity of the knowledge. The crux of the matter was that one didn't need sacred writings or the intercession of a cleric to know God, one could gain that knowledge within oneself. The discipline that took if nothing else probably did serve to limit how widespread the practice was.

That makes it sound like a proto-protestantism, universal priesthood etc. Hilaire Belloc wrote about a protestant "temperament" or type repeatedly arising throughout history but I'm not sure I quite agree with his idea of it.

At least it makes is sound like that to me, while I do think there is a chaotic vs lawful alignment struggle in history, in most structures, if you dont like the traditional AD&D definitions you could say spontaneity vs order and I think it has been a feature of religion as much as politics, ideology, public life there is something more in the instance of a lot of these heresies.

I think we live in a time and place or culture which more naturally identifies with the heretic than the heresy hunter, in some ways I can understand that, personally I identify more strongly with the neutral rather than the lawful but I give the lawful its due as it is meant to stretch across generations and I think the authority of knowledge and learning is superior to other sorts, or more legitimate than other sorts, probably because its open, or ought to be open, to challenge.

Plus the crimes, corruption and short comings of orthodoxy are well known too.

However, if you consider for a moment, the short comings of the chaotic or spontaneous, its good or accomplishments are written in sand and wont survive a single tide, more ordered (possibly wicked) opposition is very happy to see that sort of normative pattern adopted because its easily out witted and out maneuvered, everything being learned anew so often. I've been over and over that I realise, as a RCC and socialist, there's been tons of attention to and thinking about tradition vs. innovation and I often dont realise that most people havent been through the same thought process.

Anyway, besides the whole "pragmatic" debate of "tendencies" or alignments like that, I'm prepared to take some of the accounts of heresy at face value, I'm sure that some of it IS propaganda, history is written by the victors for the most part (although sometimes victims can succeed in turning victimhood into victory, its not commonplace) demonising the defeated. The same thing has happened to Christendom in historical terms with the rise of liberal cosmopolitanism and the SJW/alt right (two sides of the same coin destroying memory and the past). However, all that said, just as tradition/authority/orthodoxy has been fully exploited by people to cover up their crimes, the abuse of children and others within the RCC for example, the "rebels" or "rogues" have done precisely the same thing, plus when you are considering times of much greater superstition and mysticism I'm pretty sure that some horrible atrocities could well have been committed in terms of belief.

Plus, I dont expect anyone else to adopt the same thinking though, the movie Season of The Witch, I thought was good, at the beginning there's a scene in which some women accused of witchcraft are being killed and it plays on the whole modern, liberal sensibility a bit I think, because you're like, how horrible, these people are obviously innocent, witchcraft? What a ridiculous idea, then one of the women turns out to be proper deadite and wrecks total havoc, I dont believe its commonplace, then or now, I dont believe that any of the world religions, let alone science, understands it or explains it or gives an proper account of it, a lot of them simply ignore it all, but there is creepy, weird shit that cant be explained and ought to provoke that sort of Lovecraftian terror thing. In that respect, sometimes, at best heresy has been one step forward, four back, or, worse, its been like giving a baby a grenade to play with.
 
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Most gnostic groups taught that a saving knowledge (gnosis) was what was necessary for salvation. They often also taught that only a select few were able to reach the highest spiritual plane and that most people could only function on a lower level. Those who ascended to this higher level had esoteric, “secret” teaching passed on from Jesus. Books like the Gospel of Thomas are generally regarded as classic gnostic writings. The writings of St. Irenaeus of Lyons contain a detailed catalog and refutation of various gnostic teachings.

Like S&SF describes, I don’t think novelty seekers are aware of the deep history of these “new” ideas and its run-in with the Church proper: The rock of its foundation.
 

Coriolis

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Most gnostic groups taught that a saving knowledge (gnosis) was what was necessary for salvation. They often also taught that only a select few were able to reach the highest spiritual plane and that most people could only function on a lower level. Those who ascended to this higher level had esoteric, “secret” teaching passed on from Jesus. Books like the Gospel of Thomas are generally regarded as classic gnostic writings. The writings of St. Irenaeus of Lyons contain a detailed catalog and refutation of various gnostic teachings.
I suspect the highlighted is true, if only because most people won't put in the effort to attain this level of spiritual development.
 
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I suspect the highlighted is true, if only because most people won't put in the effort to attain this level of spiritual development.

Sad but true. One can pray and show them by example, but only if they are willing to start the journey of self-reflection:


Then, the resurrection of their spiritual death can begin.
 

Lark

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I suspect the highlighted is true, if only because most people won't put in the effort to attain this level of spiritual development.

I really dont like all theories of election and that sounds like it.

Jesus and then his followers were all about exposing the idea of a choose people, a royal priesthood, a favourite nation/ethnicity/tribe as bunk.
 

Coriolis

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I really dont like all theories of election and that sounds like it.

Jesus and then his followers were all about exposing the idea of a choose people, a royal priesthood, a favourite nation/ethnicity/tribe as bunk.
It's not that at all. If these gnostics are "chosen" in any way, it is through their own efforts and preferences. This knowledge is available to anyone willing to put out the effort to gain it.
 

Lark

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It's not that at all. If these gnostics are "chosen" in any way, it is through their own efforts and preferences. This knowledge is available to anyone willing to put out the effort to gain it.

I'm more inclined to believe that if there is eternal life, heaven, whatever it is the working of God and not anything what so ever than humankind can do individually or collectively.
 

Coriolis

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I'm more inclined to believe that if there is eternal life, heaven, whatever it is the working of God and not anything what so ever than humankind can do individually or collectively.
Humans always have the choice to turn away from God, or be open to God, unless of course you discount free will.

It's amusing that you think even non-Catholics need Lent explained to them.
Lent is nothing more than an attempt to find spiritual meaning in the inevitable scarcity of resources as winter stores became depleted, but spring resources were not yet available.
 

Poki

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For me, being a newer Christian, it’s not surprising that these things happen to this fallen world. I can pray. I don’t witness, personally.

The only thing asked of Christians is to maintain the faith of His resurrection, show our brothers and sisters the love of Christ, and be charitable when/where we can.

Have a great day.

Live, laugh, and love...irregardless of mentioning Christ or not will reap rewards. Be charitable, be thankful, be humble. For some reason we get hung up on God instead of how to guide and teach people. Followers are gained out of fear and lost out of fear. Gained out of hopelessnes and lost out of hopelessness. These negativities is not how you preach, not how you should lead, but it is what people focus on.

It is so easy to pit a Christian on themselves and differentiate taught vs what God actually stands for. To question preached shit and watch them squirm because they realize its not right. We are but humans, caught in a balancing act of life. The goal is to always aim and correct for the better. To hold onto things like Live, Laugh, Love.

Until religion understand how people actually work it will do nothing other then fight them to try and get them to follow. What if God and Jesus are not the failures in attracting people, but the way religion goes about trying to achieve its goal.
 
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I understand your heart is in-line with the zeitgeist.

This made an appearance on my feed just recently:

A Polemical Faith / OrthoChristian.Com

Some people in particular are distressed when they see in Christian writers anything polemical or negative. Why, they ask, do these Christian writers have to denounce certain trends and ideas? Can’t we all just be positive, upbeat, and encouraging? After all, Jesus preached a Gospel of love. Can’t we just speak about things that are true without denouncing things that are false?
 
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