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  1. #51
    H Y P E R B E A M Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisName View Post
    Finally, put me out of my misery!

    @ The rest of your post. We could say that everyone is 'equal' (or could be seen as such) but there's of course this thing called social relationships. It's okay for your friend to walk into your room, to take something out of your fridge without asking, to call you an idiot (jokingly) but you wouldn't expect a stranger to do this. Nor would you like it if a stranger walked into your room and started to plunder your fridge. That doesn't mean that this stranger is less equal, you just have a different relationship with them.
    If they were your friend, they would have the same 'rights' as your other friends.

    What could be interesting is; your best friend is laying on the left track and five family members (or five other people who are also important to you) are stuck on the right track.
    I think this makes it more difficult, since they all mean something to you.
    That certainly makes things more difficult. To assess not from a quantitative, but a subjective, qualitative assessment- just like my examples above, it suddenly does place 'value' to the people- and their lives, or continued living.

    It does make it sound very grim when it is read as a statement of "I consider this group to have better rights to life than the other does."
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  2. #52
    Pasta Goddess ThisName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Grey View Post
    That certainly makes things more difficult. To assess not from a quantitative, but a subjective, qualitative assessment- just like my examples above, it suddenly does place 'value' to the people- and their lives, or continued living.

    It does make it sound very grim when it is read as a statement of "I consider this group to have better rights to life than the other does."
    It is kinda grim. But I also think it's grim to let your decision depend on the 'quantity'. Because why would five people have more rights to live than one person?
    I like to see it as this; you can't add up a + b + c. Every person is a different letter, you can't add people up and say that their value is now increased. We're all individuals.
    I think you can say that everyone has value, and in your day to day live you can acknowledge that. But it's not about their personal value, but about how valuable they are to you when you have to make this decision.
    Yes, you destroy the lives of five other families. Extra sadness you could say. But why would their sadness be worse than the sadness of only one person?

    That's also why I wouldn't make a decision if both groups were strangers to me. Because I don't think that it's worse when there are five families who get heartbroken instead of 'only' one. It's not as if their sadness increases because their daughter died together with four other people, they only care about their daughter, an individual. Because of that, I don't think that quantity really matters (in this case), it doesn't make it worse for the individual that four other people died too.

    If my friends were laying on the tracks (both sides), I wouldn't make a decision (I think). Even if it meant that five of my friends would die and that only one would survive (yes yes, I know, as if I really have more than two friends :')). Because that feels wrong to me. As the example above, they are all equally valuable to me. And if it's equal, then faith may decide again.

    For the '5 terminally ill VS 1 infant' example. I don't think that I would make a decision. I could see why other people would do this tho.
    “I can’t explain what I mean. And even if I could, I’m not sure I’d feel like it.”

    - J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye

  3. #53
    H Y P E R B E A M Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThisName View Post
    It is kinda grim. But I also think it's grim to let your decision depend on the 'quantity'. Because why would five people have more rights to live than one person?
    Exactly- what I meant with by the grimness of "I consider this group to have better rights to life than the other does."- to make any decision is a silent statement of an attribution of value towards either group- positive, negative, and as you have shown, another option of something closer to neutral.


    I like to see it as this; you can't add up a + b + c. Every person is a different letter, you can't add people up and say that their value is now increased. We're all individuals.
    I think you can say that everyone has value, and in your day to day live you can acknowledge that. But it's not about their personal value, but about how valuable they are to you when you have to make this decision.
    Yes, you destroy the lives of five other families. Extra sadness you could say. But why would their sadness be worse than the sadness of only one person?
    Subjective. We cannot tell. Or rather- we cannot presume to know. It cannot be measured. Exactly why this would be difficult, and why people have varying kinds of answers, with various kinds of reasons.


    That's also why I wouldn't make a decision if both groups were strangers to me. Because I don't think that it's worse when there are five families who get heartbroken instead of 'only' one. It's not as if their sadness increases because their daughter died together with four other people, they only care about their daughter, an individual. Because of that, I don't think that quantity really matters (in this case), it doesn't make it worse for the individual that four other people died too.

    If my friends were laying on the tracks (both sides), I wouldn't make a decision (I think). Even if it meant that five of my friends would die and that only one would survive (yes yes, I know, as if I really have more than two friends :')). Because that feels wrong to me. As the example above, they are all equally valuable to me. And if it's equal, then faith may decide again.

    For the '5 terminally ill VS 1 infant' example. I don't think that I would make a decision. I could see why other people would do this tho.
    Interesting. I have never seen a response like this before- with this reasoning.
    In the end, this question is an interesting way to see how people sees human life, and their stance on it, and this is yours.
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  4. #54
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    Why not kill all? Pull the lever, then go hunt the other five down.
    Or, if you want to conserve more energy, run over the five, then you just have one to track down?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #55
    Mr. Brightside... The Cat's Avatar
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    Radio the train to stop. Free six people from tracks with knife I carry. Get them to safety. Befriend them. Accept their gratitude. Impress train people. Get Reward. Get job with the railroad going ahead of trains freeing people from being tied to railroad tracks and tracking down ethics professors in their homes. Since its usually ethics professors who like tying people to railroad tracks. Snidely Whiplash liked it too, but that guys like pushing 400 at this point? he's more a delicious jerky than a threat. So college professors it is. The greatest villains of our age.
    With all due respect,
    The Cat.

    Clarity demands a certain degree of objectivity, from the world as well as the observer...

    I am Catstiel. I am an Angel of the Lord...
    I’m the one who gripped you tight and raised you from perdition.



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  6. #56
    Senior Member asynartetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    Or, if you want to conserve more energy, run over the five, then you just have one to track down?
    I thought there would be more sport and fun in having to hunt down 5 people.

  7. #57
    Pasta Goddess ThisName's Avatar
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    People, they are tied down! You wouldn't even have to run or hunt them. Pffffrt.
    “I can’t explain what I mean. And even if I could, I’m not sure I’d feel like it.”

    - J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye

  8. #58
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asynartetic View Post
    I thought there would be more sport and fun in having to hunt down 5 people.
    I'm lazy. Plus if you have one really exquisite kill, maybe it's just a matter of quality over quantity.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #59
    Primal evil Sung Jin-Woo's Avatar
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    Its simple, blow up the train to save the 6 people.
    Or the only legitimate answer according to the internet.

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  10. #60
    Lord Grumpus Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Don't pull the lever; obviously, if you got yourself tied up on the tracks, you probably suck at life and if someone did save your life, you'd just get tied up again.
    There's a movie coming out with an intriguing title: Little Women. I think it might be something having to do with female dwarves or maybe elves.
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