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  1. #11
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Because in Europe, and even more in America I guess any concepts of freedom is totally false (the one offered by modern societies),
    Deepak makes me dream (within my dream).
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

    Dare observing your shadows (50 shades of darkness) for your own well-being Unfortunately we are all fucking contagious Smile and see what happens around you......

  2. #12
    Insane Visionary Kanra13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think that freedom and equal rights are dichotomous, I also think that tradition is no obstacle to freedom but is instead its basis.

    Tradition is just another way of saying memory or learning, its impossible to evolve if you have to repeat the same lesson over and over and over again like 50 First Dates.
    People want equal rights as a sort of freedom. Tradition can get in the way of change, when they are resistant. If one remains the same and doesn't want to change, it isn't free. So it can be an issue technically. Fortunately that's what revolutions and people like Martin Luther King Jr are here for. To make that change happen. Freedom is often seen through a political lens but it's more than that. When I see freedom I see symbolism. Not being chained down by things, a.k.a tradition in this case. But there are other chains that restrict our freedom, as well. To be truly free we needn't be chained.
    "A life that lives without doing anything is the same as a slow death." - Lelouch Vi Britannia

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    How fascinating the mind is.

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanra13 View Post
    People want equal rights as a sort of freedom. Tradition can get in the way of change, when they are resistant. If one remains the same and doesn't want to change, it isn't free. So it can be an issue technically. Fortunately that's what revolutions and people like Martin Luther King Jr are here for. To make that change happen. Freedom is often seen through a political lens but it's more than that. When I see freedom I see symbolism. Not being chained down by things, a.k.a tradition in this case. But there are other chains that restrict our freedom, as well. To be truly free we needn't be chained.
    Tradition is merely the learning (memory of the ages) which is passed from one generation to the next. It should spare future generations the need to repeat the mistakes of the past. I say it should but the fact it probably wont. Not while such an easy criticism of it is possible and so uncritical a perspective on change prevail in its place.

    There is of course, innovation, which is positive change. It can (at its best) balance out the scales WITH tradition. Fresh insights may give pause for thought about traditional practice but it is also important to avoid fashionable trends, vogues, capricious and chaotic pitfalls. Progress is not really a linear route. There is a lot of two steps forward turning out to be four steps back.

    It may sound counter intuitive (especially since a lot of what was one time very radical thinking has become mainstream) but traditionalism can be progressive. Traditions can be/and are a good foundation for freedom. It is if it amounts to something other than, something more than simply a defence of privilege, legacies, old money and all that jazz. There are traditions which dont look to ruin some people for the benefit of others. Traditions that properly recognise that one persons freedom should not and can not continue to be at anothers expense or loss of their freedom.

  4. #14
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    Really, it's being able to do what you want provided it doesn't negatively impact others. Rather high bar to set, actually. Lots of people aren't actually free even if Lee Greenwood says so.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi



  5. #15
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    There is unconditional freedom, which is when people can do anyone or anything at anyplace, anytime, and anywhere and in any way they please. So, this would allow rapists to rape, killers to kill anyone for fun, pedophiles to "play" with children without authorities taking the children away from those pedophiles, people to put graffiti everywhere (especially on military buildings), druggies to use drugs like LSD whenever and wherever, people to lie without punishment, people to cheat without punishment, etc.
    And there is conditional freedom, which is when people can have some freedoms to do what they want to do on the condition that they do not cheat, lie, abuse people, etc.
    Countries opt for conditional freedom rather than unconditional freedom to make sure people are obeying the laws rather than becoming wild animals that are uncontrollable, uncivilized, etc., which is the rational and "decent" thing to do.
    To me, freedom is the ability to do what you want to do without someone or something preventing you from doing that. Some people create this reality that they can't do something because their politicians say they can't do it. But, some people like Martin Luther King, Jr., Stokely Carmichael, George Carlin, Bill Hicks, Bob Marley, etc. create this reality that they can do something despite their politicians saying they can't do it because they don't choose to be easily obedient citizens if they see that their politicians are not seeing the bigger picture.
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  6. #16
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Freedom is being free from unlimited power, as we have found power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    We don't want to be powerless, so we balance between no power and absolute power, and the sweet point, we have discovered, is liberal democracy and human rights.

    Liberal democracy doesn't abolish power, rather liberal democracy limits power, by elections, the Separation of Powers, and human rights.

    Liberal democracy is an act of pure genius. It is unappreciated.

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