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Unforgivable Sins

Anja

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May 2, 2008
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Vengeance = closure = peace of mind.

Until the next time. . .

Meanwhile a person becomes a social nuisance or hazard depending on whether you go too far or not. Not much guarentee of freedom with that stance.
 

Spartacuss

wholly charmed
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Apr 27, 2008
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But hatred is not the opposite of love; hatred comes from love.
This is one of those platitudes that had an air of plausibility when I was your age but whose b.s. now never fails to irritate the fuck out of me.
Rest assured, hatred of a thing or person need not "come from" any form of love whatsoever. Sure, indifference is no more the opposite of love than it is of hate, since both loving and hating are a form of caring. Injection of the concept of indifference here is little more than a hokey escape hatch.
 

disregard

mrs
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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
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This is one of those platitudes that had an air of plausibility when I was your age but whose b.s. now never fails to irritate the fuck out of me.
Rest assured, hatred of a thing or person need not "come from" any form of love whatsoever. Sure, indifference is no more the opposite of love than it is of hate, since both loving and hating is caring. Injection of the concept of indifference here is little more than a hokey escape hatch.

Hatred comes from the love you previously had. Rejection from a lover, disappointment in your relative/authority figure, lost faith in humanity..
 

Spartacuss

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Not really. My most intense hatreds are for those I never loved.
In any capacity.
It is accompanied not by a loss of faith in humanity, but by the sense that the target must be eliminated from humanity.
 

Spartacuss

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No. Eliminated because I would prefer them not to exist for my selfish purposes.
I have no great love for humanity, either.

edit: I can't even think of a single example of love turned to hate for me. Disappointment + disgust? yes, but not hate.
 

disregard

mrs
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I will concede that not all hatred comes from love.

But a lot of it does come from what I've cited.
 

Spartacuss

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Perhaps. I can imagine a poisonous relationship festering over into hate.
 

The Ü™

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May 26, 2007
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Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

-Mahatma Gandhi

Now I know why he's dead.

Meanwhile a person becomes a social nuisance...

For me, nothing would change.

Not much guarentee of freedom with that stance.

You spelled guarantee wrong.

And I don't understand how vengeance turns a person into a monster. What separates me from the perpetrator is the deceitfully simple fact that I'm not the one who started it.

It is customary to fight back when you're being abused.
 

Lucifer

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Sep 28, 2008
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ENTJ
Experience has taught me that I'd have to or live the rest of my life with unbelievable hurt and rage. And I don't care to haul that kinda load around with me.

No one has control over, or responsibility for, my emotions but me, after all. Inconvenient fact, but true. Otherwise I am at the mercy of every mean-spirited person in the world. And I don't care to give people free rent in my head and heart.

More, Uber. You've overlooked my question about valuing peace of mind.

The truth of the matter is that the initial reaction you have is what you should stand by (except for obvious exceptions: find out later (s)he didn`t do something). Your initial reaction represents you, when you overthink such a thing you are in fact breaking down who you are to make exceptions for who you are. Forgiveness is the ultimate surrender of who you are, it is accepting something that you don`t believe and have convinced yourself is ok. Don`t forgive, don`t regret and don`t forget who you really are.
 

Anja

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This is one of those platitudes that had an air of plausibility when I was your age but whose b.s. now never fails to irritate the fuck out of me.
Rest assured, hatred of a thing or person need not "come from" any form of love whatsoever. Sure, indifference is no more the opposite of love than it is of hate, since both loving and hating are a form of caring. Injection of the concept of indifference here is little more than a hokey escape hatch.

Actually, disregard's statement is a valid concept in the mental health business. Your statement is a personal opinion.
 

Anja

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The truth of the matter is that the initial reaction you have is what you should stand by (except for obvious exceptions: find out later (s)he didn`t do something). Your initial reaction represents you, when you overthink such a thing you are in fact breaking down who you are to make exceptions for who you are. Forgiveness is the ultimate surrender of who you are, it is accepting something that you don`t believe and have convinced yourself is ok. Don`t forgive, don`t regret and don`t forget who you really are.

No need to "overthink," Lucifer. I am speaking about my own experience and what I've learned I need to do.

As an INFP, I learned the hard way not to act on my impulsivity. Then, I guess, most everybody does the same.
 

Spartacuss

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Actually, disregard's statement is a valid concept in the mental health business. Your statement is a personal opinion.

Well, that appeal to questionable authority settles it. It pleases me that you cited it as a business.

Lots of concepts are "valid" without being accurate. You can create a concept around precious little. (pssst... It is also mere opinion.) This is why they are compared to people's "personal" experiences and debunked where appropriate.
 

Anja

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You spelled guarantee wrong.

Thanks for the reminder. Better get your grammar perfect from now on, kid. :hi:

Well, that appeal to questionable authority settles it. It pleases me that you cited it as a business.

Lots of concepts are "valid" without being accurate. You can create a concept around precious little. (pssst... It is also mere opinion.) This is why they are compared to people's "personal" experiences and debunked where appropriate.

Doesn't matter, it's still your personal opinion and not a directive. But I'm not here to argue about arguing. . .:hi:

Waiting for Jennifer to get us back on track. . .
 

Spartacuss

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Doesn't matter, it's still your personal opinion and not a directive. But I'm not here to argue about arguing. . .:hi:
But they are all opinions. And you know what they say opinions are like.

Do you mean to submit that it is a consensus in the mental health business - contrary to my "personal opinion" - that hatred comes from love?

I'm trying to get the point of your pointing out that my observation is my "personal opinion".
 

Lucifer

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Sep 28, 2008
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No need to "overthink," Lucifer. I am speaking about my own experience and what I've learned I need to do.

As an INFP, I learned the hard way not to act on my impulsivity. Then, I guess, most everybody does the same.

I was suggesting the opposite of what you believe. and it is why I explained my reasoning. I was aware of your willingness to forgive and was trying to give an example of my perspective on the matter. I also understand that you have learned to forgive as a defense through experience. When I have forgiven someone it is only because someone has twisted my arm. I have an immense feeling of cheating myself when this occurs.This was merely the point I was trying to elaborate, to not cheat yourself.
 

Anja

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INFP
*Anja INFP-like awards "The Last Word" trophy to her conversants.*
 

mlittrell

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Sep 3, 2008
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lol i figured that quote would piss some people off. he might be dead but he did a crapload for india and didn't raise a single fist/weapon. like it or not, anything can be forgiven. that doesn't mean not punish though.
 
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