Orangey
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Yeah, I think it's fairly obvious which one is phony, too.
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Yeah, I think it's fairly obvious which one is phony, too.
wildflower
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i don't think it is terribly helpful at this point in history to set up a dichotomy of superstition vs. supernatural belief. i think it's more helpful to just use the word supernatural. most people in the world still have some belief in the supernatural--some believe in some more vague notion of god or new age belief, the occult or eastern religions and then some believe in the judeo-christian faiths, etc. all require faith at some level but sure some make more sense than others. i'll let all of you debate which makes more sense. 
while i think that most psychics, palm readers, etc. are frauds i do believe some have tapped into the supernatural realm. as a follower of jesus who has experienced quite a few supernatural things i acknowledge the supernatural realm in both, and there are sadly frauds in my faith as well, but i believe they are neither tapping into the same source nor both benevolent. if i hadn't found my faith when i did i probably would have been a big ole new age fruitloop. i say that with the kindest of meanings as where i live it is very common and expected to have experimented with new age or alternative spiritualities. btw, i've prayed for a couple of atheists at their request or allowance so i think just as there are all sorts of christ followers there are all sorts of atheists as well.
while i think that most psychics, palm readers, etc. are frauds i do believe some have tapped into the supernatural realm. as a follower of jesus who has experienced quite a few supernatural things i acknowledge the supernatural realm in both, and there are sadly frauds in my faith as well, but i believe they are neither tapping into the same source nor both benevolent. if i hadn't found my faith when i did i probably would have been a big ole new age fruitloop.
i say that with the kindest of meanings as where i live it is very common and expected to have experimented with new age or alternative spiritualities. btw, i've prayed for a couple of atheists at their request or allowance so i think just as there are all sorts of christ followers there are all sorts of atheists as well.
G
Ginkgo
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Whenever atheists and I play games, they kiss the dice. It's awkward. I'm just like, "Dude, the dice roll by gravity. Not invisible pixies with pointy nipples".
Your track record speaks for itself.
I have recently read about a new dichotomy arising in Europe, Switzerland and Germany in particular, which suggests a division between "enlightened" religion or belief and religion or belief per se, after the various passes in which divisions or distinctions have been made before, like in the US evangelical scene with a distinction between "living faith" and religion per se, I think this could be a waste of time and could be religious seeking to extend the hand of friendship towards those who will strike it down but it could be a useful description of what differs between believers in God as opposed to believers in "odd".
A lot of the superstitious beliefs are linked with novelty, in a modern sense at least, all the trinkets and books and other material which I see on sale in reference to Wicca, Asatru, Druids, Angels, Ancestors, Tarot, whatever, has that aspect and it is terribly commercialised. I know that this is not the same for people who profess these beliefs to their belief systems themselves (I know I wouldnt want to be judged by Catholicism for Dummies or "socialism for dummies", if there was such a thing) but all the same its the gateway by which many young people become acquainted with such things.
There IS an aspect by which these things, these superstitions, could make life not simply more fearful or haunted by dread, like in the past, but more exciting or interesting, mundanity is transformed into myriad signs and wonders, and in this way it could have some attraction too. Most of the time superstition is linked with dread and I think that there are believers who may suspend doubts or disbelief about things like this but arent afraid of it and are then not considered superstitious. Which would be a different thing altogether.
I dont mess with things like Tarot or mysticism not simply out of disbelief but belief that it could have some little understood aspect in which it "works" even if its just triggering unconscious mechanisms or psychology. That said there are a lot of academic psychologists and researchers who would insist that the whole of Jung, psychoanalysis and concepts like the unconscious are superstition or only of literary value.
A lot of the superstitious beliefs are linked with novelty, in a modern sense at least, all the trinkets and books and other material which I see on sale in reference to Wicca, Asatru, Druids, Angels, Ancestors, Tarot, whatever, has that aspect and it is terribly commercialised. I know that this is not the same for people who profess these beliefs to their belief systems themselves (I know I wouldnt want to be judged by Catholicism for Dummies or "socialism for dummies", if there was such a thing) but all the same its the gateway by which many young people become acquainted with such things.
There IS an aspect by which these things, these superstitions, could make life not simply more fearful or haunted by dread, like in the past, but more exciting or interesting, mundanity is transformed into myriad signs and wonders, and in this way it could have some attraction too. Most of the time superstition is linked with dread and I think that there are believers who may suspend doubts or disbelief about things like this but arent afraid of it and are then not considered superstitious. Which would be a different thing altogether.
I dont mess with things like Tarot or mysticism not simply out of disbelief but belief that it could have some little understood aspect in which it "works" even if its just triggering unconscious mechanisms or psychology. That said there are a lot of academic psychologists and researchers who would insist that the whole of Jung, psychoanalysis and concepts like the unconscious are superstition or only of literary value.
Speed Gavroche
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Atheists dont have strict set of beliefs dictated for them, so how is it abnormal that atheists would be more likely to believe some outside of box paranormal stuff?
Also this "atheists are more likely to believ in superstition" is an oxymoron. RELIGION IS SUPERSTITION, so all religious people are superstitious by definition, lol
Also this "atheists are more likely to believ in superstition" is an oxymoron. RELIGION IS SUPERSTITION, so all religious people are superstitious by definition, lol
I've highlighted the bit were you're mistaken. Go. Read.
I have no idea how you could say that and mean it, I suspect that you're either living a very, very insulated existence or you're being a douche from your parents basement or loft.
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Do explain
Its self-explanatory. Although perhaps you are hard of understanding. An interpretor will no doubt be along soon.
Speed Gavroche
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It means that capitalism has returned religion to its right place and it's a good thing. Prosperity has really begun in Europe when bankers made religious people who wanted the prohibit the use of interest rate close their mouth and return to their church and monastery. And you know it is true, anyone who is cultured and reasonable would say the same thing, and that does'nt mean anything about his life.
Speed Gavroche
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Now I wonder why respected authorities such as you guys are taken seriously by no one other than yourselves? Hmm...
Speed Gavroche
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Is it possible to have a discussion with you? Or are you just a socialist bigot who try to compensate his abscence of argumentation with ad hominem attack?
No its not possible when you're back on ignore. This time for good.
Speed Gavroche
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That's what i expected. The truth is that you demonstrated for the past that you are unable to challenge a discussion with me. You better have to shut up, indeed.
Magic Poriferan
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Obviously it's not.
It should be MP and I'm surprised at you weighing in.
Whether atheist or not and whether you're a detrator or not when it comes to religion no one should be able to treat it as dismissively as to regard it as mere superstition.
A universal phenomenon arising in all cultures and contexts, repeatedly revived, recurrently experienced? Whether you consider its truthfulness and efficacy to be fact or not is not the question, there is an undeniably universal human need and it has arisen to satisfy it, it has warranted a certain status and study as a consequence. Which superstition has not.
Although, again, this is this unsophisticated and shallow disdainful attitude towards, what was at a time, very, very basic sociological reckoning and/or will to understanding/enquiry which is totally en vogue and invaluable to present opinion. It does not bode well for anyone or anything.
