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  1. #11
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    We have found a way of determining what is true, and that way is the scientific method based on evidence and reason.

    However one of the landmarks of our psychological growth as small children is when we discover we can lie. And we also discover others can lie as well. So from then on we devote a lot of energy to discerning whether someone is lying or telling the truth.

  2. #12
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    I know something about truth. It's very unpopular.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We have found a way of determining what is true, and that way is the scientific method based on evidence and reason.
    Scientific method is based on nothing, they have even abandoned their own philosophical claims already, and relegated the scientific field as a loose collection of similar ideology that's likened to a family of conceptual analysis, which is a nice way of dressing up bunk philosophy.

    There is no evidence or reason to believe in bayesian statistics, its pure blind faith.

    I'm not opposed to empiricism, but Science has divorced itself from making empirical claims. It has been philosophically debunked in the courts, and is only touted as a rationalist enterprise from inane table thumping that presumes to believe in the materialist world-view, even after the evidence has clearly undermined the efficacy of the Scientific method (evidence which clearly contradicts the materialist world-view). This is why crazy statistical apologies exist to cover over the glaring inadequacy of the Scientific method, to halt the proper development of Science into a metaphysics that is needed to get around the cosmic luck dilemma, with the second horn presenting itself as the search for the missing aspects of materialist fatalism, which Richard Dawkins can only speculate and presume is waiting to be discovered. It only 'must' be discover-able if fatalism,— more specially, determinism is presumed to be the core operative feature of reality: where is the reason or evidence in this PRESUMPTION? If you rely on the evidence of past "workable" Scientific discoveries, you are effectively substituting real empiricism with statistical non-sense (and trying to get away with this slight of hand, because of owing some allegiance for 'the tool science has offered to our species'). A statistic is not evidence, its an interpretation of evidence: and mathematics doesn't necessarily mean anything until the figures are contextualized by reasoning; which there has never been any fixture of in the entire field of science... at its deepest, it all rests on quantum mechanics, which has an abstracted interpretation with some popularity: which happens to depict an insoluble mystery in the paradigm of MATERIALISM and the SCIENTIFIC METHOD, and as the interpretation threatens the basis of science, or places science into an insoluble agnosticism about itself, cold and empty statistical math has emerged as the crutch to be relied on, and anyone who questions science, is actually questioning the validity of a statistic, in a universe that we should all remind ourselves: can only ever present a unitary sampling, that some have decided to subject to statistical analysis as an ultimate framework— you really can't see the blind-faith spell that your under now? Science has done all that it can do, which is leaving the job unfinished. It has left the job unfinished, and can do no more, and yet, some peons still keep the faith— please don't bother telling me why you keep the faith, I know it will be some species of rationale too pathetic for me to stomach.

    Have fun with your "field of knowledge", that has yet to develop in any meaningful way in the deepest 'study' of reality, apart from speculating that Humans can never hope to understand the supreme field of science— in the style of a real lunatic religiosity, that believes that one day we might create A.I computers which will confirm all this to us:— that Science does really make sense, and the peak of what the human brain can do, will only be achieved by creating a computer who can pass the Turing test & tell us it's own confirmation that the human intellect is deficient at Science and now obsolete,— in some way that we can never hope to understand... (wow... that seems to be just the perfect materialist representation of a Supreme Being, no-one else find this ironic??? lawl Who knew that an "Atheist" is a fancy way of saying you prefer your God figure's to be of misanthropic in character.)
    Last edited by Zangetshumody; 03-29-2017 at 08:21 AM.
    In the era of nomadic seekers, from intellectual, spiritual and cultural destitution:

    Look into these treasures that I bring to you—

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=MqJXQPnzEsw

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...utz_GmbH_71-83

    http://elgin.harvard.edu/undg/virtue.pdf
    Likes Kanra13 liked this post

  4. #14
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wool View Post
    I know something about truth. It's very unpopular.
    There is truth with a small t and Truth with a capital T. Capital Ts are incompatible, while small ts can only be reasonably known.

    And although Truths are unpopular, those who hold them are well liked and popular, just like Wool herself.

    I wouldn't call Wool a populist, but it is plain she is a transparently good person. She can't help herself.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Zangetshumody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    There is truth with a small t and Truth with a capital T. Capital Ts are incompatible, while small ts can only be reasonably known.
    small t's disguise their capitalization by table thumping claims of reasonableness, they wear their small t's as a badge of honor, by claiming to appropriate the 'broadest' and full force of reason. Claiming the full force of reason is an absolutist claim, and requires absolute faith, claiming the 'broadest' force of reason, is an ideological claim in the field of philosophy, and I believe this claim even has some ethical dimensions that require some force of ethical substantiation, which Science loves to side-step by claiming to be above those 'irrational concerns'— presuming to subsume them through its superior auspice of materialist force (superior auspice of materialist force: read as the atheists version of the external locus of the divine quality of 'majesty', but this kind of conceptual work isn't unsettling to the atheist world view, because the basic operation of it's 'majesty' is misanthropic! (therefore through the power of misanthropy, majesty gets transformed from the realm of blind religiosity, into the realm of "reasonableness" where the appropriation of regular words and secular adaptation of their meaning is used to suite the ideological function which the materialist position requires of them (the SJWs perform an analogous tactic to this also)) lawl).

    Your distinctions are cunning, but they fall short of the philosophical work they covertly try to manage.
    In the era of nomadic seekers, from intellectual, spiritual and cultural destitution:

    Look into these treasures that I bring to you—

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=MqJXQPnzEsw

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...utz_GmbH_71-83

    http://elgin.harvard.edu/undg/virtue.pdf

  6. #16
    Travelling mind Oaky's Avatar
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    This reminds me of the Allegory of the cave in that what we discern as truth is merely the shadows we perceive of a truth we cannot fathom by mere perception. It can only make sense in that the finite nature of what we are biologically, in size, where we are, and all other factors contribute to the limits of what we can discern as truth both in line and in avoidant of theorems.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zangetshumody View Post
    Your distinctions are cunning
    Moles are mostly underestimated, and most overlook the cunning of Moles, but you are able to discern the cunning of Moles, so we can see you are travelling with us, indeed, a fellow traveller.

  8. #18
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    The perception of truth is dependent less upon the mind, than upon the heart.

  9. #19
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    Truth is difficult, not impossible.

    I agree with Anis Nin that people often dont see the world as it is but instead they see the world as they are.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Truth is difficult, not impossible.
    Truth is only difficult to receive because pride gets in the way.
    Likes magpie liked this post

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