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Will post-Millenials break traditional?

anticlimatic

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"Traditionalism is the new punk."

Is the current wave of progressivism over, at least in terms of the mainstream? The media treatment of this last election felt like breaking out defibrillator paddles in an effort to keep it alive, against the natural grain, resulting now in a bunch of people standing around and looking at each other while the flatline tone keeps droning.

All the Millennials I know personally have had shit get real on them by now. Many are single parents, and many of those parents have multiple children with multiple people, and other than the direct satisfaction they get from their children, they are otherwise depressed about life in general. Their flowers of youth are fading, and they've nothing to show for it. The only ones I know that still have that 'glow' are the ones that for whatever reason held on to traditional lifestyles, or broke that way at some point and held on.

Even if they didn't, and still maintain a progressive world view as of November 8th, wouldn't the election of The Enemy (Trump) and his Sworn Legions (senate/congress/supremecourt) inspire a natural withdraw, out of fear, into a mental state of natural conservatism?

Are we to the point where Millennials are going to start following the path of the baby boomers into the long neglected arms of traditionalist safety? Have they spent enough time floundering around out in the guidance-free moral wilds yet? Or will they yet press on? I've heard a few times that the generation to proceed them is set to be even more progressive, but something about that notion feels really off for some reason.
 

Typh0n

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I don't think it's possible to go back to a 1950s style traditionalism. There's no returning to the past, and traditions evolve and there is not just one traditon in human history.

I do think that we need is to build new customs, as Nietzsche put it "new values", I hesitate to use the word "tradition" because "new tradition" is oxymoronic. Confucious, the ancient Chinese philosopher invented customs in a decaying society, and managed to "impose" them on society without state intervention.

What we need is a new Confucious for the Western world, who wouldn't reject Western values but would teach new customs and values to help people structure their lives around family and other institutions.
 

anticlimatic

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I don't think it's possible to go back to a 1950s style traditionalism. There's no returning to the past, and traditions evolve and there is not just one traditon in human history.

I do think that we need is to build new customs, as Nietzsche put it "new values", I hesitate to use the word "tradition" because "new tradition" is oxymoronic. Confucious, the ancient Chinese philosopher invented customs in a decaying society, and managed to "impose" them on society without state intervention.

What we need is a new Confucious for the Western world, who wouldn't reject Western values but would teach new customs and values to help people structure their lives around family and other institutions.

I think traditionalism reinvents itself to stay alive, which seems oxymoronic, but it's something the catholic church has been doing for centuries. The 50s for instance, which is oft parodied as sort of the iconic traditionalist ethos (the Fallout games being my particular favorite), was at the time actually a modernized version of the frontier lifestyle that the young 50s folk's grandparents- whom they looked up to- adhered to. The two lifestyles seem radically different on the surface, but share the same backbone. The 80s were basically a reinvention of the 50s, and the Bush Jr. presidency era was basically a reinvention of the 80s. All periods involved saw a pretty heavy resurgence in traditionalism. I feel like we're due for another.
 

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Milllenials were least likely to vote for Trump, and all future economics point to reality, and reality is primary wealth as in land and resources, which means that the upcoming economy will be holistic and ecological, and break completely with tradition out of physical necessity. There's no future in coal and the renewable energy sector is the next big thing in business. If Donald Trump isn't rightfully ejected by the electoral college, or simply admits he does not really want to be president, the United States is poised to turn into a backwards third world shithole under the rule of demigogue Trump and his cabinet of functionally retarded evolutionary failures. Or to put it in religious language, the evil and the foolish are in for a real rude awakening.

So if you mean by traditional people may turn back to religion in belief that Trump is possibly the antichrist, then yes, but if you mean by that "sexist, racist fossil fuel driven economy" then absolutely not.
 

entropie

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Traditionalism basically is redefined every generation due to the inherent problem of time moving on. Of course one day the progressive tendancies of the Millenials will become a tradition. And of course one day progressivism will have to be reflected. I think that is just the natural way of things.

Conservatism aint really a bad thing. My society is pretty conservative. It means: we like our society and want to stick with it. What Trump does is protectionism. That is bad, cause it eliminates trade and trade is the base for growth of a society. If he does all the things he wants he will isolate the country intellectually even more. And keeps on thinking that Belgium is a nice city in Europe.

The problem are the generation X voters and especially the male ones. They seem to long for a racist, patriarchic society again. And they have burning issues with their self-conciencsce and self-worth. They long for a leader to care for them, care for their problems. A millenial is prolly more on the side of being a person that takes his life into his own hands.

Imo things will get better, when Millenials turn about 40-50 and that old generation is wiped out. We have to survive the next ten years and see that the Old dont do too much damage to the young now. Nobody knows why they feel so helpless, why they are so angry. To me the millenials are the first generation, harbouring the potential to create a better World. But you dont know, maybe grumpiness comes with age and we will turn to be protectionate, racist and sexiest again, when we turn 80 years old.
 

Virtual ghost

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I think most milenials will be more happy by going even further away from traditionalism.

Almost all problems of the world are comming from the fact that we are pushing 21th century technology into 18th century socio-economic models. What is nonesense that will never trully work and it will create even more messed up people. However since technological progress can't really be undone it is socio-economic models that will have to be remade.
 

Zangetshumody

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I hope that post-Millennials will see the great potential for liberation that was offered to the prior generation, but by avoiding any real work of modeling integrated reform, or wholistic-schema's of separatist planning, they instead moved to treat the structures of reality, is if it should only exist as a blank-canvas for them to paint with their solipsism, and how, with that obtuse point of departure, they squandered any chance of real progress, by producing an ideological circus that permits the SJW to exactly be, everything that the SJW "talks" about hating. Hopefully the next generation will unmask this new brand of ideological hegemony for the pretentious re-brand of the feeble ideological controls that it 'promises' to replace... but perhaps their Academic grand-dragon Tribal-leaders, will have been able to cast the spells of scripted victim-feels, so that the dark side will only extend its cancerous demands of politically-bestowed leeching into the next generation... although they really do have all the original problems that the fictional dark-side contains... the rule of two will have to emerge at some point, because right now its only the hate of the common enemy (CiS-whites) that lets this SJW ideology manifest as a cohesive movement, and if that ominous target even diminishes, they will have the same scapegoat deficiency that Nazi-propaganda suffered from.

It will be interesting to see how this ideology, in the West, might respond after there is something like a real genocide or drastic power-grabbing and turmoil in South Africa, motivated to award itself any license in the image of the SJW rhetoric... although I imagine they will do the same tactic of post-hoc denials and re-framing to only find true representation in their glorious Utopian deployment— that is their natural state, once all their ideological enemies have been purged (no more oppression to blame for dissatisfactions...).

Julius Malema makes great SOUNDING arguments for land-grabbing and extensive 'land-form', even though I could unequivocally dismantle his feeling laden rhetoric as being counter-productive to my Countries position on transformation, Julius just wants to get back onto the gravy train, even if it happens because South Africa has to run into the same economic collapse that happened in Zimbabwe, at least it will be 'his resources' to corruptly plunder (he already managed to extract a palace that he used to own, when he used to be the president of a Political Youth League). These fascist-dogs, who will crush organised labour as surely as Lenin and Hitler did in their times, make me feel a little eager to see that our local SJW population who support his style of rhetoric, do get to see the final affects of his leadership (deserving those experiences), although watching that play out through history is too taxing to those few who see through this insanity; however history tells us, that if they can create instability, burning down public amenities, and creating enough chaos and public disorder and hopelessness, with even 20% of the electorate, they are prone to launch a coup de tat (this was Hitler's tactics, and they are being consciously followed by the "Economic Freedom Fighters"), already the Coup's planning has been openly threatened by Julius... Will the SJW's in the West, see the history which is already being replayed in South Africa, and impose on themselves any kind of self-criticism within their victim-ideology? Or will they keep the narrative of moral-supremacy, into the mystical paradise that they claim is hiding just beneath the burnt ashes of privilege, or will they notice, that just because we might all abandon problematic instruments like money, doesn't magically generate total freedom, and their juvenile feels-driven politics, puts all power in the hands of radicals who promise to match their infantile and screamed system of support, with a Parental-authoritarian political system that is impervious to critical or ideological challenges.

The SJW is simply calling to forbid all 'political opposition' for those who are claiming the most radically-'leftist' voice, never mind pragmatic issues of deliverance, for any of the 'goods promised'; if the 'solution' hurts the 'oppressors', its an opportunity for justice to be served! And the ideological lie that pragmatic issues involved with real transformation, only happens from state sanctioned controls over the private spheres of life (which is an impossible formula for generating wealth and substantial transformation, its only capable of redistributing wealth at the cost of wealth reduction, and some blatant wealth destruction through the inherent corruption in this ideological mangling: because it promotes the lie that the middle class is a production of state channeled special-privileges, when the middle class has, generally-speaking, only ever occurred 'organically' in spite of political interventions [the political structuring of the economic mind-scape is not an intervention, ie. a functioning judiciary].)

_____
I prefer to view the SJW project as inventing a Neo-Traditionalism, that was an improvement because it belonged to the 'correct grouping of people' that need to be bestowed special privileges because of "justice" and historyâ„¢ (justice = ideological mind control over an entire society to subjectively filter their expression of value and status accordingly, along with some top down redistribution of economic powers to be continually imposed according to some ideological standard of justice (and the economy and society must somehow retain some form of coordinated functionality while this social-justice is in command (PS: only a fascist regime can ever hope to manage politics in this way... >.> )). Seeing this SJW-traditionalism, as a failed ideology, unfit for purpose, as the impossible construction for a tower of babel, will hopefully make people more discerning about ideological filters, and use all past traditions as a resource to draw from, and by thoughtful extension of their experiences, they might find a quicker route to choosing productive and effective outcomes. Personally I would model my form of ideal traditionalism (regarding gender relations), to something embodied by the War and Peace mini-series, notice the 'intrigue' association with seductive powers and pseudo-love-affiliation, this was a philosophically rich culture (Feudal Russia).

What I find funny, is that from a similar tact to what the third-wave-feminists take: one could easily make the case that men have it far worse:

Men are made to pay for all the female ideological privileges, while no-one in identity politics bothers to examine this setup from the perspective of their 'privileged enemies', which leads to more extreme ideological privileges being setup, in this game of male instrumentality and suppression— and women only get pissed off because they either have to give up all of this privilege, or find a stupid convoluted rhetoric, of how they should be allowed to harness their natural feminine prowess to use men, but in a way that doesn't piss off her sister-predators (ie, forcible redistribution of wealth so women can get the benefits of extracting work from men, while blaming them for having greater abilities to accomplish those works, or diluting the worth of labor to have rewards distributed in this ideologically convenient way). Either way, this won't go well for women, because they have always used their biological 'capital' to unfairly extract benefits from the expendable use of men, which has had the result, of producing women that are less capable than men, in almost everything, completely across the board [except maybe manipulation (ie. look at this political movement I'm critiquing, and its misanthropic style of operation):

HOWEVER this is a generalization, which happens to be a true generalization— while on an individual level of operation its a meaningless fact! (Because its only true about 'a group of people' in AGGREGATE, not about each individual that makes up that group), which is why equality before the law is a pivotal principle, and why society should be premised on non-sexism— which doesn't include or mean that it's warranted to intervene in the admission of women to certain fields, or to promote women's participation in any artificial way that favors the intake of women more so than men— everyone should be allowed an equal opportunity, and if anyone wants to privately encourage or fund someone to go into a field, your free to do so; BUT using the state for this, is essentially wrong, especially if those resources could rather be used to do something of practical importance (because practical importance is investing into long term strength, and organic developments that doesn't need to be ideologically propped up and funded further to sustain artificial levels of participation that weaken and corrupt functionality [and while you've already decided to Jerry-rig society, why not use the same corruption to solve every problem— and expect to legislate a middle-class expansion into being? Why not privately use the state to get rich if your in the 'oppressed category'— its all the same logic] (ie. A state that artificially favors the appointment of female judges is totally COUNTER-productive, especially, when at the same time, that state doesn't brief an equal amount of women when it needs to hire council or go to trial... the hypocritical insanity of institutional weakening is not lost on me, at least).

The SJW is resigned to finally admit that s/he does not wish to escape cultural/societal hegemony, it only wishes to replace hegemony in the image of its own ideological filter of reality, which requires a supreme moral-narrative, substantiated through an unquestioned historically-narrated, feels-driven scripting, to be maintained at all costs; along with the invention of new doctrines like "post-fact" gainsaying.
 

tkae.

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"Traditionalism is the new punk."

Is the current wave of progressivism over, at least in terms of the mainstream? The media treatment of this last election felt like breaking out defibrillator paddles in an effort to keep it alive, against the natural grain, resulting now in a bunch of people standing around and looking at each other while the flatline tone keeps droning.

All the Millennials I know personally have had shit get real on them by now. Many are single parents, and many of those parents have multiple children with multiple people, and other than the direct satisfaction they get from their children, they are otherwise depressed about life in general. Their flowers of youth are fading, and they've nothing to show for it. The only ones I know that still have that 'glow' are the ones that for whatever reason held on to traditional lifestyles, or broke that way at some point and held on.

Even if they didn't, and still maintain a progressive world view as of November 8th, wouldn't the election of The Enemy (Trump) and his Sworn Legions (senate/congress/supremecourt) inspire a natural withdraw, out of fear, into a mental state of natural conservatism?

Are we to the point where Millennials are going to start following the path of the baby boomers into the long neglected arms of traditionalist safety? Have they spent enough time floundering around out in the guidance-free moral wilds yet? Or will they yet press on? I've heard a few times that the generation to proceed them is set to be even more progressive, but something about that notion feels really off for some reason.

She misunderstood how those things make people happy, and inaccurately summarized them as "traditional."

"Tradition" doesn't make you happy if tradition dictates a formula that leads to unhappiness. Family makes you happy because it's social connection, vocation only makes you happy if it's personally fulfilling, community makes you happy because it's not only social connection but is also social security, and faith makes you happy because it gives you an existential sense of purpose.

But if your "tradition" in those things is a restrictive religion that dictates you live in a community that denies your needs as an individual, puts you in a job that you take only for money, and sets family roles that cause friction rather than togetherness, then that "tradition" is a recipe for UNhappiness.

You can't just sum those up as "tradition" like she did.

Our American definition of happiness is flawed, yes, but not in the way she says. We see success as the path to happiness, which goes back to her white picket fences with a dog and a yard and shit. That's a suburban, middle-class lifestyle, which is not the path to happiness. In fact, economic success has a correlation to suicide rate. Why? Social connection. Rich people (who we expect to be happy) have less social connections, giving them less to keep them from killing themselves, in contrast to the possessions making them happy like we'd expect.

That gets to the core issue of happiness:

Extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation.

Take vocation as her example. Your job can make you infinitely happy if it's rewarding. If you go to work every day because of what you do and not because of what you make, then your job will be rewarding. That's intrinsic motivation. The paycheck is extra. Extrinsic motivation is a source of unhappiness: if you work for money and nothing else, you're going to be unsatisfied with your job.

Similarly with faith. If you live by a faith because you're scared of the social consequences for violating its norms, that would be extrinsic motivation, and would make you unhappy.

To sum it up, her definition of tradition is too limited, because some tradition violates the very research she's citing. In fact, most "traditional" lifestyles lead to unhappiness, even though they contain the things she dumbed down too far.

Getting to OP's point: I don't know.

Millenials have as skewed a sense of happiness as baby boomers, but in a different way. Baby boomers expected possessions to make them happy, and found out that it doesn't work. Millenials expect achievements to make them happy, and it won't work. For a lot of us, we've realized that. I've graduated with two different Bachelors degrees, waiting for my pot of gold to be on the other side of the stage when walking at graduation. That's not how it works, because happiness is not an achievement. Compare that to baby boomers, who expected happiness to be a possession that was bought and owned.

Experiences are what create happiness. Those are things you carry with you your entire life. More than that, happiness is a mindset that's cultivated through conscious actions and thoughts. You pursue it the same way that a hiker pursues the end of the trail, rather than how a football player pursues a trophy. It's the action that causes happiness, not the result that earns it. In that way, millenials should NOT lose their sense of individuality and breaking the mold. But the approach should be different. We need to learn to appreciate what's around us rather than simply being focused on the possibility that we're striving towards.

EDIT: I almost forgot.

Her attack on equality and progressivism? She's a dumbass.

She incorrectly explained every single one of those articles and research surveys, either by reversing the direction of causation or incorrectly identifying correlation as evidence of causation. For example, she said that sexual promiscuity leads to depression in teens. That's incorrect. The correct order of causation would be depression and lack of satisfaction leading teens to sexual promiscuity in the pursuit of happiness. Similarly, women who report more sexual partners having unhappier marriages is evidence that unhappy marriages lead people towards more sexual partners, not the way reverse order she reported it in.

And as far as women reporting higher happiness when their husbands are sexist pigs? Women in abusive or unequal relationships are happy on some level, since they either have it smacked into them, or are strung along enough to stay in the relationship. That's how the dynamics of an abusive relationship works: if they're so unhappy they leave, there is no relationship. The abuser keeps them just short of that point, creating the illusion of happiness. "If I'm in this relationship, it must be because I enjoy it."

Ordinarily I'd let that kind of bullshittery slide, but that's a dangerous misrepresentation of data. Happiness research does not suggest people get into abusive and unequal relationships, it advises a relationship of equality and mutual respect. The happiest relationships have 5 positive interactions to every 1 negative interaction, and are built on a foundation of positively sharing in each other's personal accomplishments and experiences.
 

anticlimatic

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Extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation.

Take vocation as her example. Your job can make you infinitely happy if it's rewarding. If you go to work every day because of what you do and not because of what you make, then your job will be rewarding. That's intrinsic motivation. The paycheck is extra. Extrinsic motivation is a source of unhappiness: if you work for money and nothing else, you're going to be unsatisfied with your job.

Similarly with faith. If you live by a faith because you're scared of the social consequences for violating its norms, that would be extrinsic motivation, and would make you unhappy.

Accurate.

Getting to OP's point: I don't know.

Millenials have as skewed a sense of happiness as baby boomers, but in a different way. Baby boomers expected possessions to make them happy, and found out that it doesn't work. Millenials expect achievements to make them happy, and it won't work. For a lot of us, we've realized that. I've graduated with two different Bachelors degrees, waiting for my pot of gold to be on the other side of the stage when walking at graduation. That's not how it works, because happiness is not an achievement. Compare that to baby boomers, who expected happiness to be a possession that was bought and owned.

Experiences are what create happiness. Those are things you carry with you your entire life. More than that, happiness is a mindset that's cultivated through conscious actions and thoughts. You pursue it the same way that a hiker pursues the end of the trail, rather than how a football player pursues a trophy. It's the action that causes happiness, not the result that earns it. In that way, millenials should NOT lose their sense of individuality and breaking the mold. But the approach should be different. We need to learn to appreciate what's around us rather than simply being focused on the possibility that we're striving towards.

Boomers were first all about the experiences as well. It was basically the hippie mantra. But something happened to them- likely middle age- that turned them into something else. Or did it? Perhaps something is off in your theory- perhaps living for experiences always turns into living for things. If one lives to acquire- first experiences, then once the body is unable to continue, objects- how can one be at peace with what one has? If experiences are only to be experienced, and not collected, why seek any out and simply experience the one in which you're in?

Experiences create a barometer of feeling by imbuing depth of feeling relative to the sum of those experiences, but I think happiness like our own lives is a fleeting experience disguised as something layered and complicated disguised as something simple. It's true we can synthesize it ourselves by limiting our choices, and that behavior that is conduicve to our most fundamental natures and faculties- what I believe you more or less called the ideal activities of 'intrinsic motivation'- better allows us to navigate our lives with peace and fulfillment. But at the end of the day no one can know happiness without sorrow, nor the direct heights of one without the depths of the other, so the chick in the video's 'more happiness' angle is ripe for logic failings in my opinion. At least as a main cornerstone to her traditionalism argument, which it is.
 

tkae.

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Accurate.



Boomers were first all about the experiences as well. It was basically the hippie mantra. But something happened to them- likely middle age- that turned them into something else. Or did it?

First, it depends on what aspect of baby boomers you're talking about. They've had a pretty dynamic history, so I was talking about the sum of their history, not necessarily a particular point. I was talking about baby boomers once they hit their careers and discovered the evils of credit and a monetary system no longer based on the gold standard.

If you're talking about the early period of baby boomers who were driving the counter-cultural movement of the late 1960s and early 1970s, then yes, you're correct, they were experience-driven. It's also why they were happy, and have generally good memories of the time.

What happened to make them change?

It wasn't anything. It's actually a really sad story. I guess it's the INFP in me, but I grew up loving hippie stuff, and studied the time period pretty extensively. Basically, the entire countercultural movement was built on naivety that was unsustainable, and ultimately collapsed in a wreckage of broken hopes and dreams.

Think of it as a balloon trip. They had an impetus -- the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights Movement, the Korean War, the Cold War, etc -- that led them to look for change. That change created an atmosphere where free love was possible, and everyone could get along. But it was a suspended disbelief that drove them, not a sustainable ideology. What started with love, freedom, and recreational marijuana and LSD used turned to STDs and progressively harder drugs. As those took hold, the love at the beginning gave way to drug addiction and drug-induced abberant behaviors, deaths of movement figures (the 27 club, MLK, etc), and wore away at the suspension of disbelief. If Woodstock was the peak of the balloon ride, Altamont Free Concert - Wikipedia was the landing: Hell's Angels bikers stabbed a man on drugs to death as a Rolling Stones concert lost control due to drugs and poor design (something hippies didn't take into account very much).

No thing happened to turn the Baby Boomers away from their experiences or beliefs. The movement itself was an unsustainable bubble that ultimately popped. But it didn't just end. The Baby Boomers gave us Civil Rights and many other things that still make our society better.

Perhaps something is off in your theory- perhaps living for experiences always turns into living for things. If one lives to acquire- first experiences, then once the body is unable to continue, objects- how can one be at peace with what one has? If experiences are only to be experienced, and not collected, why seek any out and simply experience the one in which you're in?

That would be called mindfulness, which is an element of happiness. You have to enjoy the moment you're in to actually experience anything. In fact, mindfulness enhances any experience, even if it's everyday life.

The meaning of an experience is what you assign it. Even now when I talk about experiences, you're talking about the culturally-expected ones like a vacation to Hawaii. I'm talking about anything that makes you happy. For me it's playing video games with friends, for my mom it's petting the horses. If you have Netflix, check out the movie "Happy". For a poor rickshaw driver in India whose house doesn't even have four walls, it's coming home each day and having his children happy to see him. For a poor man in Brazil, it's getting to surf everyday and rescue baby birds that have fallen out of their nest. For a man in Louisiana, it's riding his boat through the swamp and looking at the animals.

Those are all experiences. The problem is that we don't recognize them as sources of happiness. We're so busy looking forward to where we expect happiness to come -- cruises, expensive vacations on islands, shopping sprees, unrealistically perfect holidays with families -- we're forgetting that the moment we're in can be a happy moment, even if it's as typical as waking up each morning. So yes, we don't have to seek moments out for experiential happiness. But we do have to recognize them and be mindful of our presence.

And as far as "living to acquire", that's not an attitude to have. That's again positing that happiness is an earned result. Experience-derived happiness comes from having experienced, not about how many experiences or how high "quality" they are. You should live to live, and you live by experiencing.

Experiences create a barometer of feeling by imbuing depth of feeling relative to the sum of those experiences, but I think happiness like our own lives is a fleeting experience disguised as something layered and complicated disguised as something simple. It's true we can synthesize it ourselves by limiting our choices, and that behavior that is conduicve to our most fundamental natures and faculties- what I believe you more or less called the ideal activities of 'intrinsic motivation'- better allows us to navigate our lives with peace and fulfillment. But at the end of the day no one can know happiness without sorrow, nor the direct heights of one without the depths of the other, so the chick in the video's 'more happiness' angle is ripe for logic failings in my opinion. At least as a main cornerstone to her traditionalism argument, which it is.

You're correct to an extent, about 95%. The nature of happiness is defined by the alternative possibilites and experiences of unhappiness. Stars are brightest on a dark night, shadows can't exist without light, etc. I'm a huge believe that you can't have just black or white, good or evil. You have to have both.

But resilience is a big thing in positive psychology. It's well-founded that the ability to successfully overcome obstacles creates a network of coping strategies that further enhance the stability of future happiness and the ability to rebound from negative experiences. Happiness is not the absence of bad experiences, but the ability to be less unhappy than you would have been, and the ability to be happy again faster.

The 5% you're wrong is the implication that because sadness must exist for happiness to have meaning, it must be an acceptable alternative. Contrary to popular belief, sadness is not the alternative to happiness. Stress is the alternative to happiness. What causes stress? Sadness, anger, fear, the environment, etc. Stress is not an acceptable alternative because it has lifelong (and genetic) health implications. Blood pressure, weight, psychological wellbeing, and the health of your offspring are all negatively impacted by stress on a physiological, biochemical level.

Which goes back to resilience. The goal of happiness isn't to avoid bad things, but to recover from them constructively. It's also not to limit your behaviors, like you mentioned. That's actually the opposite of how happiness works. The broaden-and-build theory says that as someone becomes happier, their behavioral repertoire (the things they do or are willing to do) expands, leading them to discover novel activities and therefor novel sources of happiness, where as unhappiness causes a person to limit their behaviors. To sum up, you're not going to go to a new yoga class when you're sad, you're going to want to lay in bed all day. You're also not going to want to lay in bed all day when you're happy.

But if you have poor resilience, losing your job is more likely to make you so unhappy you stay in bed all day for months (which can lead to depression), whereas good resilience means you're more likely to only lay around in bed for a week before you decide to look for a new job.

There's also the concept of happiness setpoint, which is that each of us has a biological level of happiness that we return to when we're both happier and sadder than normal, which is why some people truly are unhappy in general. But the setpoint is changeable through conscious effort, so that's not an excuse.

I rambled at the end, but wanted to slip that in.
 

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Tradition...blah, blah, blah...do what you want. Tradition is an excuse to do the same thing over and over. If you wanna do it over and over do it. If not then don't.
 

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Tradition...blah, blah, blah...do what you want. Tradition is an excuse to do the same thing over and over. If you wanna do it over and over do it. If not then don't.

This is pretty much what I see happening with them. They're not running back to the safety of tradition - I don't think they see it that way. They keep what works for them and throw out what doesn't. Seems like a good rule for anyone of any generation.
 

Magic Poriferan

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I don't think it really works that way. There isn't some kind of line toward and away from tradition. And people tend to be revisionists, whatever they call traditional at a given point in time is probably not nearly a traditional as they say it is.

Each subsequent generation does something a little different. And how could they not? Technology, population, etc.. has never stalled. Life styles change as a result. No subsequent generation is going to be more traditional than the previous one by the previous one's definition of tradition.
 

Poki

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This is pretty much what I see happening with them. They're not running back to the safety of tradition - I don't think they see it that way. They keep what works for them and throw out what doesn't. Seems like a good rule for anyone of any generation.

Yes, all I hear a lot of the time are "traditional" people not wanting others to change. I am not married, living with GF, have a kid together and we are happy. She was dumbfounded because she doesn't face a lot of the same issues a typical "step" or "GF" would face with my oldest son. I didn't follow the negative tradition of divorce, I ignored my parents saying this is how women are and THIS is how you MUST protect yourself. I never shut my eyes and worked to make everything the best I could. Ask anyone that knows my son and they will tell you he is much happier, behaved, etc. then when I was married. Its like people don't learn from their environment and adapt and learn and change. They just react as "people" would and then say...its not my fault I am just a "person".


My GF was talking to my mom and my mom said she doesn't really care if we get married, because my sister is the only one who never got married and my sister is the only one out of the 4 of us still with the same person 30+ years later. They are not trapped and never were by marriage, but they still always worked through everything. My sisters boyfriend knew me since I was in diapers.
 

ceecee

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Yes, all I hear a lot of the time are "traditional" people not wanting others to change. I am not married, living with GF, have a kid together and we are happy. She was dumbfounded because she doesn't face a lot of the same issues a typical "step" or "GF" would face with my oldest son. I didn't follow the negative tradition of divorce, I ignored my parents saying this is how women are and THIS is how you MUST protect yourself. I never shut my eyes and worked to make everything the best I could. Ask anyone that knows my son and they will tell you he is much happier, behaved, etc. then when I was married. Its like people don't learn from their environment and adapt and learn and change. They just react as "people" would and then say...its not my fault I am just a "person".


My GF was talking to my mom and my mom said she doesn't really care if we get married, because my sister is the only one who never got married and my sister is the only one out of the 4 of us still with the same person 30+ years later. They are not trapped and never were by marriage, but they still always worked through everything. My sisters boyfriend knew me since I was in diapers.

Well, divorce is at a 35 year low, they are saying.

Divorce in U.S. Plunges to 35-Year Low - Bloomberg

And I think there are less marriages to end in divorce to begin with. This is one of those, traditional thing take the good, leave the bad. Someone having multiple kids (more than 2) with multiple people (more than 2) has a problem, unrelated to marriage or tradition. And I was a little leery about getting married a second time and put it off for awhile myself. Why mess with a good thing? I don't regret marrying my ENFJ at all but - doing it because it's what you do - is the worst argument for marriage of all time.
 

Poki

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Well, divorce is at a 35 year low, they are saying.

Divorce in U.S. Plunges to 35-Year Low - Bloomberg

And I think there are less marriages to end in divorce to begin with. This is one of those, traditional thing take the good, leave the bad. Someone having multiple kids (more than 2) with multiple people (more than 2) has a problem, unrelated to marriage or tradition. And I was a little leery about getting married a second time and put it off for awhile myself. Why mess with a good thing? I don't regret marrying my ENFJ at all but - doing it because it's what you do - is the worst argument for marriage of all time.

Yes, i hear quite a bit of bad advice when it comes to marriage. Glad to hear the rate is dropping, hope its because people are finding the right person not because they are forcing something that should not be. Sometimes we get stuck on the wrong things that matter and get lost in our journey for sake of the goal.
 

Typh0n

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Tradition...blah, blah, blah...do what you want. Tradition is an excuse to do the same thing over and over. If you wanna do it over and over do it. If not then don't.

This is pretty much what I see happening with them. They're not running back to the safety of tradition - I don't think they see it that way. They keep what works for them and throw out what doesn't. Seems like a good rule for anyone of any generation.

Somewhat true, but people who want to experiement and do everything their own way usually just end up re-inventing the wheel. Which is why it can be good to take eample from other generations.

The whole trick is to underrstand why something is done a certain way and not just to do it because "that"s the way it is". Alot of tradtions have good reasons for existing, but they might be outdated in today's context. That is, the reasons aeren't there any more. But on the other hand, there might still be good reason to do something traditonal, there's no reason to reject traditon "just because" either.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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I don't know, I like Lauren Southern a lot, but I just saw the title of the video and couldn;t help thinking of some fucked up exaggerated version of Fiddler on the Roof with Tevye rapping about tradition with the Thug Life glasses and a blunt. I'm in a mood today because of this cold.

It's bizarre.

I'll watch it later, which means I'll probably have to edit this post to adjust my thoughts.


Tradition is whatever becomes the norm for society, so it's a little misleading to refer to it like a specific set of values and rituals. It's just whatever becomes the norm and is repeated over time. The hippies in the late 60s...their values and practices ceased to become counterculture and became part of tradition when they grew up and took over the labor force, therefore making up the bulk of consumers. Now they're fading and here come the millenials. Funny, I guess Generation X was relatively small compared to the boomers and millennialls, since you really don't hear of their influence as much (seem to have left their biggest mark on popular music and TV in the last few decades, with less influence in other areas such as politics). I think how much a generation affects tradition MAY be tied to their economic power. The boomers left a giant mark on our culture because they was Oprah rich compared to prior generations. But americans are becoming poorer. I dunno. Fuck it, it's more than just purchasing power i guess

Sorry this turned into a rambler. cold medicine makes me a little loopy
 

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Ah Lauren Southern. She's great. I was lucky enough to meet her in person a while back :D.

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