Should we be celebrating Christmas?

[miss fortune]

I'm going to post this article before [MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION] comes into this thread and remembers it (and then posts it before me like he did last time )

forget about the presents and religion and all of that bullshit... Christmas is about the people you get to spend time with and we always forget that point. every year, instead of buying presents for most of my family I make them soap... it's a bit of a family tradition and they all have their favorite scents picked out and I make them all specifically for different people. it's cheap, but it's something that they look forward to and this year my sister is coming down here to make soap with me and spend the day cooking and laughing and listening to music. all of us in the family have little things that we make and share with each other and it's not expensive, but it's a nice thing that shows that we're thinking of each other even when we aren't together... the thought is what matters

though what matters the most is spending time together. they're a great group of people and every one of them is flat out funny... we spend the whole day laughing and making fun of each other and telling stories and just enjoying each others' company... some of them are getting older and it may be one of the last times we get to laugh with them (other than at the funeral... we do funny eulogies that are closer to a roast... we're a sick group of people)... and none of us are ever going to be as young again. we've got to make hay while the sun shines.

people who get caught up in the monetary aspect of christmas are the ones who are losing out... the ones who can't relax on the holiday because they're worried that someone will think that they're cheap or someone might get a better present than them. it's one of the few times that you have everyone together... don't spoil the day because you're a materialistic asshole

 

[ilikeitlikethat]

(Or as I call them; The 12 Rapists of Christmas).

(

IMO).

(This one could be used for Fetish, so, kudos).

 

[ceecee]

This always makes me laugh because it is so innocent and people have such a problem with this. I mean in Croatia the black guy of the Christmas time tortures bad children until they brake.

I live in a heavy Dutch area. I've never actually seen anyone dong the Black Pete thing (I understand it's a beloved custom in the Netherlands) but they do talk about it. I don't have an issue with the Dutch in Holland doing this, not at all. It's their thing. I don't want some tool from The Netherlands walking in here and telling me how to do Christmas either.

 

[Yuurei]

(Or as I call them; The 12 Rapists of Christmas).

(

IMO).

(This one could be used for Fetish, so, kudos).

You forgot about Vunter Slaush!

 

[Coriolis]

Item 4 on the list in the OP's article is absolutely right, but hardly evil. The timing and many of the traditions of Christmas are in fact Pagan, because Pagans were celebrating long before the prophets ever got wind of a future messiah. The early Christians, and in particular the early church establishment, co-opted many of the existing Pagan festivals and overlaid them with Christian themes to get the masses to fall into line. Christmas coincides with the winter solstice, which is an astronomical reality for everyone, however if at all we choose to observe.

The article [MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION] linked explains this very clearly. In particular:

So in my mind, the Christians complaining about people losing sight of the real meaning of the holiday are right, in the sense that people do forget that it's supposed to be about generosity, and redemption, and forgiveness, and clinging to hope in a world turned dark, cold, and cruel. But it stood for those things before it was called Christmas. It stood for those things back when religion wasn't just something you did out of obligation to some tradition, or a set of ceremonies you performed in order to join a tribe or political party. No, back then if the sun didn't shine on your crops, you had to watch your children slowly die. So you got on your knees and begged the sun to shine.

That "clinging to hope" part is critical. The sun coming up after that longest night showed that the wheel was still turning; spring would follow winter as it always had; there was a light at the end of the tunnel.

This is part of why I consider myself a Pagan: my spiritual observances are all anchored in something real. Put another way: they take their cues from the Creation itself. So I put up a holiday tree with a siver star on top, burn a Yule log, and even have a nativity scene - the baby Oak King watched over by the Mother Goddess. Everyone around sees me celebrating Christmas, and in a sense I am, but I am mostly celebrating Yule.

We should have a second Christmas late in June so we have both solstices covered.

We do. It's called Litha, or more colloquially, Midsummer. In fact there are 8 celebrations evenly spaced around the wheel of the year, most of which have filtered down to us in some form, even if barely recognisable. Groundhog day, for instance, corresponds to Imbolg, an even more potent promise of spring.

 

[gromit]

I like Christmas, esp Christmas Eve with my extended family. I tend to think simpler is better, maybe a tree and a wreath, good times with loved ones, but it is fun to see all the lights walking down the street or all the decorations in the mall. It's one of the few times I go to church, and it's nice.


Anyone of European descent who celebrates Christmas is also probably descended from pagans. So it's part of the heritage, part of how you make it through a cold dark long winter. I don't really see the fuss about the "pagan symbolism"

If you're getting stressed out or angry about Christmas you're probably doing it wrong.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Oaky]

Oi oi, I like my good 10 day holiday off work.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

[MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION]
I agree with your sentiments about Santa Claus. Santa Claus is one of the more damaging aspects of this holiday, imo. Children are taught that they must blindly believe in Santa Claus or else they don't get a reward. This devalues this importance of critical thinking, which is ultimately damaging to society.

 

[Lord Lavender]

[MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION]
I agree with your sentiments about Santa Claus. Santa Claus is one of the more damaging aspects of this holiday, imo. Children are taught that they must blindly believe in Santa Claus or else they don't get a reward. This devalues this importance of critical thinking, which is ultimately damaging to society.

I never believed in Santa at all. I always knew it was my mother and father buying the presents for me. Santa is as you said about blind belief (The same type of thinking that leads to cults e.t.c).

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I'm going to post this article before [MENTION=25377]SearchingforPeace[/MENTION] comes into this thread and remembers it (and then posts it before me like he did last time )

forget about the presents and religion and all of that bullshit... Christmas is about the people you get to spend time with and we always forget that point. every year, instead of buying presents for most of my family I make them soap... it's a bit of a family tradition and they all have their favorite scents picked out and I make them all specifically for different people. it's cheap, but it's something that they look forward to and this year my sister is coming down here to make soap with me and spend the day cooking and laughing and listening to music. all of us in the family have little things that we make and share with each other and it's not expensive, but it's a nice thing that shows that we're thinking of each other even when we aren't together... the thought is what matters

though what matters the most is spending time together. they're a great group of people and every one of them is flat out funny... we spend the whole day laughing and making fun of each other and telling stories and just enjoying each others' company... some of them are getting older and it may be one of the last times we get to laugh with them (other than at the funeral... we do funny eulogies that are closer to a roast... we're a sick group of people)... and none of us are ever going to be as young again. we've got to make hay while the sun shines.

people who get caught up in the monetary aspect of christmas are the ones who are losing out... the ones who can't relax on the holiday because they're worried that someone will think that they're cheap or someone might get a better present than them. it's one of the few times that you have everyone together... don't spoil the day because you're a materialistic asshole

I might be able to get behind this way of looking at the holiday, maybe even allow my relatives to come see me at Christmas and set up a tree. Thanks for posting this. I guess I like this because winter is really miserable here in Wisconsin and it would be nice to enjoy/embrace it more.

I think Frosty the Snowman most embodies this way of thinking about the holiday. Frosty knew that he was going to melt at the end of the day, so he decided to have a good day.

I'll come back to more comments on this thread later.

 

[anticlimatic]

In the northern midwest the Christmas season is an important part of psychologically surviving the winter. It kicks off right after Thanksgiving which is coincidentally right when the snow begins to fly, and romanticizes what would otherwise be a jarring and shitty introduction to what is arguably the worst of the 4 seasons, especially in the north. It would be like if the DMV offered bags of jelly beans with every number, so you could spend the first little bit of your time there at least munching on something sweet to acclimate you to the hellscape a little bit.

There's also something to be said about a holiday dedicated to the act of giving, which serves as a yearly reminder that giving to others is often one of the best gifts one can give to themselves. It's a sentiment that can easily be forgotten, and there are even some who forget it despite practicing it in some twisted and commercialized way during the holidays, but it's nice to know it's always there.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I never believed in Santa at all. I always knew it was my mother and father buying the presents for me. Santa is as you said about blind belief (The same type of thinking that leads to cults e.t.c).

Did you have to pretend to believe? So you'd get presents? I did that and tried not to ask too many questions.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Oi oi, I like my good 10 day holiday off work.

You'd still get 10 days off, but maybe it'd be more flexible, unless you're a teacher or something like that.

 

[Lord Lavender]

Did you have to pretend to believe? So you'd get presents? I did that and tried not to ask too many questions.

I never pretended at all. I trolled my parents about it as a matter of fact and i was going on and on about logical explanations behind all the events behind Santa. Carrots ate by reindeer= Dad ate them, Santa comes to all houses in the world= What about these third world kids who will get nothing e.t.c.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I like Christmas, esp Christmas Eve with my extended family. I tend to think simpler is better, maybe a tree and a wreath, good times with loved ones, but it is fun to see all the lights walking down the street or all the decorations in the mall. It's one of the few times I go to church, and it's nice.

Fan of Christmas lights here too. If there wasn't Christmas, maybe people would have lights up all year. That would be better. I can actually walk around my neighborhood in warmer weather and look at lights on houses. This time of year, with trying to prevent my baby from getting sick, I'm not doing it.

Anyone of European descent who celebrates Christmas is also probably descended from pagans. So it's part of the heritage, part of how you make it through a cold dark long winter. I don't really see the fuss about the "pagan symbolism"

If you're getting stressed out or angry about Christmas you're probably doing it wrong.

Symbols construct our mental-scape, which affects how we interact with the world. I feel like Christians don't understand these symbols or their bible stories, and that creates chaos and confusion in the world, not just during the holidays, but all year.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

[MENTION=15790]ilikeitlikethat[/MENTION]
I was disgusted with South Park's Christmas shit, and I'm really disgusted that some place actually has a Christmas-piece-of-shit as part of their celebrations, but it's interesting!

 

[ilikeitlikethat]

[MENTION=15790]ilikeitlikethat[/MENTION]
I was disgusted with South Park's Christmas shit, and I'm really disgusted that some place actually has a Christmas-piece-of-shit as part of their celebrations, but it's interesting!

It's slightly different; It's a yule log that kids beat the shit out of demanding it defecates presents.

Merry Christmas everybody!

 

[The Cat]

My dad told me when I was two there was no Sandy Claws. Made me promise not to tell the other kids.

 

[Ivy]

Christmas used to stress me out. I felt like I had to get something for everyone in my extended family. I have enjoyed Christmas so much more since I discovered Buy Nothing Christmas. I convinced each branch of my family to forego the usual gift orgy in favor of just getting together. Now the only people I get gifts for are my kids and my nieces and nephew. Sometimes I make something for other family members, food or a craft or something, but that's it.

I don't have a problem with the pagan origins of Christmas. That doesn't make it evil. I love Advent even more than Christmas, actually. My church also does a "Darkest Night" service on the winter solstice, acknowledging that the holidays aren't all joyful and happy for all of us. I lost my mom and my grandmother last year just before the holiday season began and it was a difficult year to celebrate. But my family and my church always come together and there's joy even in the midst of sadness.