Pope Francis Meets Stephen Hawking

[Thalassa]

Two great men from different sides of the spectrum meet at the Vatican - Living Faith - Home & Family - News - Catholic Online


It makes me extremely happy for two reasons: that science and religion have come together at all, and that two of the most respected individuals in the world have united on such an important issue in politically uncertain times.

This really gives me hope.

 

[Thalassa]

Oh come on guys, this is incredible. I know Hawking met other popes, but Francis is actually agreeing with him. These are exciting times to be alive. Drop the doom and gloom and embrace Pope Francis and Stephen Hawking both working together to save the biosphere. It's like the hand of God has touched us.

I honestly think anyone who doesn't see Francis as Christ-like is missing something fundamentally theological. HE GETS IT.

You know all those parts of the Bible where God says someday my word will be written in men's hearts ...this is that day, that is why so many "liberals"and atheists and scientists recognize Francis as doing the will of God, because he does.

This meeting has so much more potential for the fate of humanity, of GOD'S PEOPLE, than Benedict or John Paul II.

 

[Thalassa]

Think about it this way: Pope Francis has actually said he will die within a few years, he obviously has no children or grandchildren, because of his position and little time left he has no vested fiscal interest in green washing, or his reputation as a religious leader...in fact he jeopardizes it by the second just like Jesus...so if he cannot tell you in Laudato Si, or by recommending the political neutrality of the scientific community to the Catholic world, then basically you are equal to one of the people in that meme who think salad equals illuminati, if you think he has "ulterior motives" to global warming.

This is one of the purest, unselfish, disinterested displays of love I've seen since the death of Mother Teresa in my youth.

It is a miracle.

 

[Coriolis]

I honestly think anyone who doesn't see Francis as Christ-like is missing something fundamentally theological. HE GETS IT.

Christ like? Perhaps, but he is still sexist. Yes, he is doing a good thing here, and in general has been a very positive influence/example for the church and the world, largely because he walks the walk. But he still very much supports traditional gender roles, at least within the church. A kinder, gentler sexism. (Was Jesus sexist?)

 

[Thalassa]

Christ like? Perhaps, but he is still sexist. Yes, he is doing a good thing here, and in general has been a very positive influence/example for the church and the world, largely because he walks the walk. But he still very much supports traditional gender roles, at least within the church. A kinder, gentler sexism. (Was Jesus sexist?)

Yes I think he's Christ-like, but he's not Christ, the pope is human, and Catholics don't worship the pope. No one on earth is perfect. Pope Francis is an awesome human being, he's drawn away hatred from gays, women who have had abortions, and focuses instead on the poor and the needy. For a pope, he's pretty awesome. I think it's really negative to focus in on one belief he has that you don't agree with. Pope Francis may be the leader we need to save humanity from cultural divisions and global warming. He's using his power for the best possible things.

 

[Coriolis]

Yes I think he's Christ-like, but he's not Christ, the pope is human, and Catholics don't worship the pope. No one on earth is perfect. Pope Francis is an awesome human being, he's drawn away hatred from gays, women who have had abortions, and focuses instead on the poor and the needy. For a pope, he's pretty awesome. I think it's really negative to focus in on one belief he has that you don't agree with. Pope Francis may be the leader we need to save humanity from cultural divisions and global warming. He's using his power for the best possible things.

I agree, and this has been the pope's point as well: don't spend so much time scolding over gays, birth control, etc.; better to spend one's efforts on the poor and needy.

 

[Thalassa]

I agree, and this has been the pope's point as well: don't spend so much time scolding over gays, birth control, etc.; better to spend one's efforts on the poor and needy.

That's part of the reason I don't see him as "sexist" in the darkest sense of the word: he's the first pope to publicly wash a woman's feet, he doesn't approach issues of gender (like homosexuality, birth control, etc.) with "special harshness" like some church leaders in various religions have been likely to do he doesn't regard gender related issues as extra-awful sins, and primarily I think he believes in what he considers to be the dignity of males and females serving different purposes, not with one being better than the other. So while some people might see that as sexist, I think it's a difference of philosophical opinion that can be tolerated.

 

[Coriolis]

That's part of the reason I don't see him as "sexist" in the darkest sense of the word: he's the first pope to publicly wash a woman's feet, he doesn't approach issues of gender (like homosexuality, birth control, etc.) with "special harshness" like some church leaders in various religions have been likely to do he doesn't regard gender related issues as extra-awful sins, and primarily I think he believes in what he considers to be the dignity of males and females serving different purposes, not with one being better than the other. So while some people might see that as sexist, I think it's a difference of philosophical opinion that can be tolerated.

It is just another form of "separate but equal", a kinder, gentler sexism. Sure, it's better than the harsher, crueler kind, but I'd rather not be put in that sort of box at all.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I'm going to half-agree with [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] on this topic.

 

[Mole]

Yes I think he's Christ-like, but he's not Christ, the pope is human, and Catholics don't worship the pope. No one on earth is perfect. Pope Francis is an awesome human being, he's drawn away hatred from gays, women who have had abortions, and focuses instead on the poor and the needy. For a pope, he's pretty awesome. I think it's really negative to focus in on one belief he has that you don't agree with. Pope Francis may be the leader we need to save humanity from cultural divisions and global warming. He's using his power for the best possible things.

In fact he is using his power to hide the extensive Vatican records of child rape across the world by priests, brothers and Religious from UNICEF, and ignoring the Rights of the Child.

The rape of children across the world, protected by the hierarchy of a powerful international organisation, is an expression of pure power.

No Monseigneurs, no Bishops, no Archbishops, no Cardinals, and no Popes, are in jail for facilitating and organising child rape across the world.

And just as we would expect, Catholics are ignoring the Judicial Enquiry into Child Abuse in Ireland, and ignoring the Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse in Australia, and making propaganda (de propaganda fide) with a straight face, a face turned from the suffering of children, and turned to the power of the Church.

 

[Thalassa]

It is just another form of "separate but equal", a kinder, gentler sexism. Sure, it's better than the harsher, crueler kind, but I'd rather not be put in that sort of box at all.

Well take heart that the Lutheran Church has female church leaders. In any event, I'm extremely pleased with Pope Francis, and I think it's absolutely wonderful he is encouraging Catholics to be aware of climate science.

 

[Typh0n]

In fact he is using his power to hide the extensive Vatican records of child rape across the world by priests, brothers and Religious from UNICEF, and ignoring the Rights of the Child.

The rape of children across the world, protected by the hierarchy of a powerful international organisation, is an expression of pure power.

No Monseigneurs, no Bishops, no Archbishops, no Cardinals, and no Popes, are in jail for facilitating and organising child rape across the world.

Evidence?

And just as we would expect, Catholics are ignoring the Judicial Enquiry into Child Abuse in Ireland, and ignoring the Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse in Australia, and making propaganda (de propaganda fide) with a straight face, a face turned from the suffering of children, and turned to the power of the Church.

I don't think Catholics ignore these things, many just aeren't proud of all these scandals (which is understandeable) though I don't think they deny it. They'd rather not draw attention to it.

 

[Mole]

Evidence?

I don't think Catholics ignore these things, many just aeren't proud of all these scandals (which is understandeable) though I don't think they deny it. They'd rather not draw attention to it.

You can find all the evidence in the nine year Judicial Enquiry in Ireland into Child Abuse, and you can find further evidence in the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse.

The worst crime was the cover up by the highest reaches of the Catholic hierarchy.

And most of the Catholic laity are continuing the crime of the cover up by not drawing attention to it.

What we are interested in are: what are the implications for the governance of the Catholic Church, and what are the implications for the theology of the Catholic Church.

 

[Thalassa]

You can find all the evidence in the nine year Judicial Enquiry in Ireland into Child Abuse, and you can find further evidence in the Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Child Abuse.

The worst crime was the cover up by the highest reaches of the Catholic hierarchy.

And most of the Catholic laity are continuing the crime of the cover up by not drawing attention to it.

What we are interested in are: what are the implications for the governance of the Catholic Church, and what are the implications for the theology of the Catholic Church.

Access Denied

Pope Francis isn't the cause of this and has asked bishops to step down who covered up pedophilia. Unfortunately the Catholic Church is a large and spread out organization that suffered corruption, and I think this is not least of all attributable to their stance on priests not being allowed to marry (though I think there's a certain wisdom in having popes be unmarried people, there is an advantage to having celibate gurus, they exist in other religions besides Christianity, but they're a very small percentage of the population truly gifted people I think, and I don't think it's right to assign this rule to every priest).

However, this discussion has very little to do with Pope Francis, and absolutely nothing to do with his meeting with Stephen Hawking, or his stance on science.

While I find your earnest effort to uncover when religion is being used to unsavory and unrelated ends commendable, I find your overt and rather evangelical condemnation of all religion pretty rude.

 

[Mole]

Access Denied

Pope Francis isn't the cause of this and has asked bishops to step down who covered up pedophilia. Unfortunately the Catholic Church is a large and spread out organization that suffered corruption, and I think this is not least of all attributable to their stance on priests not being allowed to marry (though I think there's a certain wisdom in having popes be unmarried people, there is an advantage to having celibate gurus, they exist in other religions besides Christianity, but they're a very small percentage of the population truly gifted people I think, and I don't think it's right to assign this rule to every priest).

However, this discussion has very little to do with Pope Francis, and absolutely nothing to do with his meeting with Stephen Hawking, or his stance on science.

While I find your earnest effort to uncover when religion is being used to unsavory and unrelated ends commendable, I find your overt and rather evangelical condemnation of all religion pretty rude.

I quite understand you revere Pope Francis as the Vicar of Christ on Earth, nonetheless Pope Francis is the last absolute Monarch and he has refused to make the extensive records of child sexual abuse available to UNICEF.

The Catholic Church, led by the Vicar of Christ on Earth, has a very long history of committing the crime of covering up child sexual abuse.

And still today the Church prefers to guard its reputation and its finances rather than protect children in its care.

 

[Thalassa]

I quite understand you revere Pope Francis as the Vicar of Christ on Earth, nonetheless Pope Francis is the last absolute Monarch and he has refused to make the extensive records of child sexual abuse available to UNICEF.

The Catholic Church, led by the Vicar of Christ on Earth, has a very long history of committing the crime of covering up child sexual abuse.

And still today the Church prefers to guard its reputation and its finances rather than protect children in its care.

At your age it's time you figured out that religion can be USED by bad minded or ignorant people to evil ends, just as socialism or capitalism can be, but that religion as a whole concept isn't the problem.

It's easiest to refer you to another post I just wrote on this subject:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/politics-history-and-current-events/87546-main-people-america-3.html#post2763806

 

[Mole]

I find your overt and rather evangelical condemnation of all religion pretty rude.

We are born free but everywhere we are in the chains of piety.

And piety is the last barrier to breathing the air of freedom.

Piety inhibits our ability to think critically and feel freely.

Piety comes from 'patria' the fatherland. And piety is the approved feeling in the patriarchy.

And those still bound in the chains of piety, naturally think the impious are rude.

In some countries blasphemy is given the death penalty, while here we are free to blaspheme, only risking murder by Islamists.

 

[Mole]

At your age it's time you figured out that religion can be USED by bad minded or ignorant people to evil ends, just as socialism or capitalism can be, but that religion as a whole concept isn't the problem.

The problem with religion is not so much whether it is good or bad but that it just isn't true.

The world religions were created by those who were spectacularly ignorant of the most basic facts of the world and the universe around them. Also they had short life spans, carried as many as five physical diseases, as well as mental illness. They knew nothing of liberal democracy, modern economics, science, or anything about biology and natural selection. And guess what, they practiced institutional slavey right up to 1833, when institutional slavery was abolished for the first time in the House of Commons.

Even the Bible admonishes slaves to obey their masters.

So just as religions justified institutional slavery, it is no surprise to find religion has justified the institutional sexual abuse of children, even the Jehovah's Witnesses!

 

[Thalassa]

The problem with religion is not so much whether it is good or bad but that it just isn't true.

The world religions were created by those who were spectacularly ignorant of the most basic facts of the world and the universe around them. Also they had short life spans, carried as many as five physical diseases, as well as mental illness. They knew nothing of liberal democracy, modern economics, science, or anything about biology and natural selection. And guess what, they practiced institutional slavey right up to 1833, when institutional slavery was abolished for the first time in the House of Commons.

Even the Bible admonishes slaves to obey their masters.

So just as religions justified institutional slavery, it is no surprise to find religion has justified the institutional sexual abuse of children, even the Jehovah's Witnesses!

You didn't read my other post, did you? Just keep talking to yourself.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I'm going to half-agree with [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION] on this topic.

*noted*

This meeting is adjourned.