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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
    In a world influenced by the enlightenment's way of thinking, namely that the every-man should be primarily rational and secondarily human, does this give rise to the need for philosophy or religion? Indeed is this its primary utility? If we live in the acknowledgement that there lies somewhere an objective truth which can be discerned by science, is not the logical conclusion nihilism if not for spiritual fulfilment?

    Discuss how you think the endeavours of science have failed us in many ways, even if it is mostly good.
    I dont agree with you that that was the enlightenment's goal, I think that's what someone who has bought the post-modernists version of the enlightenment would think though, or perhaps someone who has tried to adapt Nietzsche's ideas about christianity and civilisation and apply them equally to science and reason.

    Nihilism would be the conclusion reached by someone who believed that there was no objective truth, to be discerned by science or anything else, hence the whole point of nihilism.

    There's some existentialists or french philosophers who think that there is no objective truth, to be discerned by science or anything else, Camus or Sartre, that's an affirmation of nihilism not as a response to anything but just an objective reality.

    Camus saw philosophy as a consolation, life was absurd, meaningless but you'd be a douche to go with that, his philosophy was hedonism with a small h and probably a lot of altruism too when you read his novels, the upbeat ones, or his book about suicide and that guy from myth pushing the rock up a hill for eternity.

    Sartre was a little different, and I think a douche, but some of his followers or respondents, like in his book on existentialism and humanism, thought that the conclusions he'd reached meant you would either embrace religion or philosophy as a consolation. That IS a utilitarian approach.

    I think a lot of that's a lot of half-educated bullshit, as is post-modernism and most of the reaction to the enlightenment, as I understand it the enlightenment was about discoverable truth within a tradition challenged by renewed skepticism, and not an outright rejection of tradition in favour of a modernist project or modernity. The skepticism came from discoveries like refraction of light, if you cant trust your own eyes what can you trust? The discoverable truth about finding more reliable or evidence based conclusions than had served to date.

    It had some blindspots and in the course of over turning prejudices it left some intact or reinforced others, though to err is human, the reactions against it as villainy or utopianism is over done, its all intellectual cantor and half baked, the hard sciences laugh at the drivel produced by the post-modernists in the social science theatre, there's a couple of great books on that. There's also some not so great books from the social science scene and their eventual conclusions about something called critical realism which I think is the post- post- post- modernism.

    For me the enlightenment is not the end of history, its not something to react against perpetually, its not the end or beginning of philosophy or religion either, they serve the purposes they always have and they always will, its not purely utilitarian, its not as a consolation because consolation isnt required, whether the cosmos is meaningless or not and whether that meaningless is brought into sharp focus by the enlightenment or the enlightenments failure (ie post-modern criticism).

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
    @that's not my name, I assume you either know nothing about the subject, or have had bad experiences in the past with arrogant philosophy students. Either way, try to have a mature discourse on the matter instead of tossing around vapid pejoratives.
    You must have typed that quickly if you'd typed "no" while meaning to type "know" and having to go back and correct it. Which suggests to me you might have got butt hurt by something someone said.

    Anyway, if you think that someone responded how they did because they'd encountered arrogant philosophy students, how you do think that implying a lack of maturity and suggesting they are "tossing around vapid pejoratives" will convince them you are anything other than an "arrogant philosophy student"?

    So much blind emoting. JFC.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
    If anything the ignorance of Nicodemus and that's not my name perhaps bolsters my argument. Thanks for the thoughtful responses though indra and Mole.
    It's the opposite of ignorance, actually. It's professional experience.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
    @that's not my name, I assume you either know nothing about the subject, or have had bad experiences in the past with arrogant philosophy students. Either way, try to have a mature discourse on the matter instead of tossing around vapid pejoratives.
    This type of response to her opinion is probably the kind of thing that fueled her opinion in the first place. How arrogant.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidius View Post
    @that's not my name, I assume you either know nothing about the subject, or have had bad experiences in the past with arrogant philosophy students. Either way, try to have a mature discourse on the matter instead of tossing around vapid pejoratives.
    Lol my bad you did get butthurt. Its cute that you assume I don't know anything or had a bad experience with someone but its not the case, still waiting for someone to change my mind, but so far no one has. Like I said, I'm not going to change my mind or not express my opinion on a topic where the op asks for opinions about something because you really really want me to agree with you.

    Immature discourse is getting butthurt by other peoples opinions and agreeing with comments that insist if you don't see things the way they do you have psychological problems.
    Life is a work of art.

  6. #16
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    *feels deeply sad about how people view philosophy*

    But then again I had one young assistant professor who was arrogant. It was weird.

    Practically, unless you're going to be an author of articles in a magazine or newspaper editorial responses, or an author of philosophy or if you have the money, a philosopher if you will.. there's not much to do with philosophy in the digital age. It's a subject that requires background knowledge and it is abstract and requires deep contemplation of things that may or may not happen, not concrete or practical.

    Like Jung's work. Nobody talks about it here because no one wants to bother finding actually what the unconscious is or what all the symbolism of past and present cultures meant for them and what may mean for us because people don't see what's practical about it or of course just ignorance. We can't all study the same thing. :P

    Where politics here, you're convincing one which party is better or what joining one means more than the other. People find arguing politics to be more useful in the digital age is important because it's the very form of government everyone is going to undergo through and follow under.
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  7. #17
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Philosophy has its uses in the arts and science. In the former it gives artists subject matter and insight into how to achieve aesthetic effects. In the latter it inspires theories about how the universe works.
    [ Ni > Ti > Fe > Fi > Ne > Te > Si > Se ][ 4w5 sp/sx ][ RLOAI ][ IEI-Ni ]
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by that's not my name View Post
    Why waste your time and ours taking shit about mbti on a forum dedicated to typology? Obsidius made a thread asking our opinions and I have an opinion on the topic, I'm not just going to not post because its not the same opinion he has and he might get butthurt (which he didn't, you did, so lol@ you).

    Also the only person I see being directly disrespectful to another person in this thread is you. Telling someone they have psychological problems because they don't share your view on a topic is fucking pathetic.
    This is a site devoted to psychology. Most of psychology is devoted to pathologies of the psyche, all except mbti which religiously avoids mentioning pathologies of the psyche.

    This makes Typology Central a comfortable place for those who want to avoid the pathology of their psyche.

    Very few of us avoid pathologies of our body, and yet so many of us avoid pathologies of our psyche.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by that's not my name View Post
    Lol my bad you did get butthurt. Its cute that you assume I don't know anything or had a bad experience with someone but its not the case, still waiting for someone to change my mind, but so far no one has. Like I said, I'm not going to change my mind or not express my opinion on a topic where the op asks for opinions about something because you really really want me to agree with you.

    Immature discourse is getting butthurt by other peoples opinions and agreeing with comments that insist if you don't see things the way they do you have psychological problems.
    Again with the condescension and useless pejoratives, have a rational discourse please. And no, I was asking for answers, not your feelings on the subject. I'm not insisting you have psychological problems, I'm insisting that you support your claim of it being useless (which is indeed a very popular claim which is often left unsubstantiated) instead of just tossing it out there as vapid notion of disrespect.

    Thankyou.
    Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion man.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You must have typed that quickly if you'd typed "no" while meaning to type "know" and having to go back and correct it. Which suggests to me you might have got butt hurt by something someone said.

    Anyway, if you think that someone responded how they did because they'd encountered arrogant philosophy students, how you do think that implying a lack of maturity and suggesting they are "tossing around vapid pejoratives" will convince them you are anything other than an "arrogant philosophy student"?

    So much blind emoting. JFC.
    I was awake at 3am that morning, and made a fair few spelling mistakes that I had to correct, that was one of them which I obviously didn't correct. Interesting to see how much you think you can derive from a single grammatical error though, also incredibly presumptuous and unfounded in reality, might I add. In fact, this is the poor man's "U mad bro?".
    Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion man.

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