The Sam Harris discussion thread

[Peter Deadpan]

Ne doesn't bother with silly questions like "does it actually exist" to let Ti consider whether or not something is useful, or pointing to some greater truth about reality. Ni remains grounded in Se. That's why you can see xNTPs talking about a very abstract form of "God" as a useful construct for discussing phenomenological issues (e.g. "God doesn't play dice", even if Einstein was wrong on that one).

Also, UTILITY MONSTERS

Are you saying that the object of Ni's focus is an assumed reality that uses Ti to justify it regardless of it's practicality? So what you're getting at is that it's just too subjective and stubborn - right?

I would agree to this but only to an extent. Ni users want to broaden their information resources too, it's just harder to get out of our heads.

I can only draw from my own experience on this, but I will agree that I can be stubborn when it comes to my theories, but typically only initially. I appreciate new pieces of information or other perspectives because generally these things greatly expand my internal network/web, if that makes sense. Like, one piece of new info or a different perspective might actually have a 10-fold effect because I can draw many new "lines" connecting different already existing pieces that lacked sufficient connection to other pieces, which can lead to "aha" moments or just more evolved theories/understanding in general.

I don't know if any of that made sense to anyone as I am soooo not used to trying to explain how my brain works to other people. But to sum it up, Ni can be stubborn but isn't inferior to Ne, nor is it too stubborn to accept new viewpoints. Harris may be (although I'm not sure about that)... but Ni isn't.

 

[SD45T-2]

I just couldn't resist

In which Peter Singer investigates a basement flood - Existential Comics

 

[onemoretime]

Are you saying that the object of Ni's focus is an assumed reality that uses Ti to justify it regardless of it's practicality? So what you're getting at is that it's just too subjective and stubborn - right?

I would agree to this but only to an extent. Ni users want to broaden their information resources too, it's just harder to get out of our heads.

I can only draw from my own experience on this, but I will agree that I can be stubborn when it comes to my theories, but typically only initially. I appreciate new pieces of information or other perspectives because generally these things greatly expand my internal network/web, if that makes sense. Like, one piece of new info or a different perspective might actually have a 10-fold effect because I can draw many new "lines" connecting different already existing pieces that lacked sufficient connection to other pieces, which can lead to "aha" moments or just more evolved theories/understanding in general.

I don't know if any of that made sense to anyone as I am soooo not used to trying to explain how my brain works to other people. But to sum it up, Ni can be stubborn but isn't inferior to Ne, nor is it too stubborn to accept new viewpoints. Harris may be (although I'm not sure about that)... but Ni isn't.

Not saying it's inferior at all, just different. If there's any gap, it's in using Ti in the 1st/2nd position vs the 3rd position. Ti serves the broader social intentions of Fe, which can lead to rationalizing logical flaws. These wouldn't be tolerated when Ti has a higher functional preference. Meanwhile, Ne will keep smacking you in the face with exceptions, rather than keeping focused on the "vision", so to speak.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Not saying it's inferior at all, just different. If there's any gap, it's in using Ti in the 1st/2nd position vs the 3rd position. Ti serves the broader social intentions of Fe, which can lead to rationalizing logical flaws. These wouldn't be tolerated when Ti has a higher functional preference. Meanwhile, Ne will keep smacking you in the face with exceptions, rather than keeping focused on the "vision", so to speak.

What if "Sam Harris is INFJ" is one of the exceptions here? IOW: I've noticed that the 'exceptions' can turn into visions in and of themselves, that NPs can chase relentlessly. Using their own shapeshifty logic to make stuff fit.

Although I do understand what's being said here, and agree Ni tunnel vision can be stunning. eta: It has kinda seemed to me though that what happens in Harris is more like what I just described than Ni. Because it's too.....fast? to be Ni. I'd be hard pressed to even buy INTP, because it's just that fast. Ni can be fast, but a Ni dom can't really articulate the process as it happens./eta

Postscript: I don't actually care what type he is. I'd be really surprised by INFJ, because normally in my mind such external tenacity disqualifies INFJ from the running. But I really don't care.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Also, UTILITY MONSTERS

What is it a utility monster? Is it like a DVD monster?

 

[ceecee]

I just started Islam and the Future of Tolerance: A Dialogue: Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz: 9780674088702: Amazon.com: Books so far it's a great discussion.