I think I am starting to give up on humanity; am I on the right now?

[Pionart]

Why wasn't he mean?

He was mean.

He was mean to the bullies.

Why? MBTI probably explains it a bit.

For his personality, fighting on behalf of the one picked on was probably very confidence boosting.

He probably felt like the Hand of Karma, aggressing against aggressors.

Why were any of the others mean?

 

[geedoenfj]

I gave up on humanity a long time ago, life is defficult, most people are not have no clue how it is being viewed from your side, this not heaven, we just have to deal with it I guess..

 

[Kanra Jest]

I gave up on humanity a long time ago, life is defficult, most people are not have no clue how it is being viewed from your side, this not heaven, we just have to deal with it I guess..

Yet every so often a "prophet" comes by to reawaken, to nudge us back onto the right track. To improve upon our situations when things go dire enough. Like Yeshua and Buddha in essentially myth. Or as we know, figures such as Martin Luther King jr, and Ghandi. While they don't fix everything, they somehow stir the pot to inspire some inspiration and movements to create change. This results in a ripple, but unfortunately the ripple only goes so far and the only way it could truly effect us was if such figures kept coming or humanity actually 'gets it' and makes the grander scale changes themselves.

 

[Lia_kat]

The ugly truth is that humanity neither cares about nor needs your hope. The only thing you can do is learn how to survive, carve out your niche of peace, trust, and belonging, and try to minimize how much destruction and harm you contribute.

Nature never promised us paradise. Nature never promised us anything at all. Angsting helps none. Acting helps some. Maximize where you can. Otherwise, move on.

Agreed. We are extremely lucky to exist at all.
All we can do is implement the changes we want within our own minds-- always be kind, compassionate, help when we can, and cherish those around us who do the same.

Yet every so often a "prophet" comes by to reawaken, to nudge us back onto the right track. To improve upon our situations when things go dire enough. Like Yeshua and Buddha in essentially myth. Or as we know, figures such as Martin Luther King jr, and Ghandi. While they don't fix everything, they somehow stir the pot to inspire some inspiration and movements to create change. This results in a ripple, but unfortunately the ripple only goes so far and the only way it could truly effect us was if such figures kept coming or humanity actually 'gets it' and makes the grander scale changes themselves.

Or if they don't get assassinated every time. But history repeats itself.
It creates helplessness, and I think helplessness creates apathy in a lot people. "There's nothing I can do about it, something always happens, so why should I even try?" It's defeatist but it's the reality. I hear it over and over again. I've had similar thoughts myself.

 

[Kanra Jest]

Or if they don't get assassinated every time. But history repeats itself.
It creates helplessness, and I think helplessness creates apathy in a lot people. "There's nothing I can do about it, something always happens, so why should I even try?" It's defeatist but it's the reality. I hear it over and over again. I've had similar thoughts myself.

And through this fear no one rises up to try for if the last potentials were assassinated, why should we risk that and waste it away? Thus, the fools who shut the previous potentials down win out by creating that defeatist mentality that prevails and stagnates. I can understand it. But it makes it no less disappointing. They thus live in their personal bubbles ignorant, until some catastrophe shakes them up. It seems to be natural to retreat into our safe havens.

 

[Lia_kat]

They thus live in their personal bubbles ignorant, until some catastrophe shakes them up. It seems to be natural to retreat into our safe havens.

Sad but true.

 

[Lia_kat]

Also, can't help but think of this song:

"Better you than I."
(LOVE Tool)

 

[Lark]

More need to acknowledge this.

Pretty sure that's one of the most biased things I've ever seen.

I dont accept most of the framing of discussions or territorial demarcations in thinking as "left" or "right", if I take a simple one, a very simple one, the right is supposedly the purveyor of the work ethic and the left not, now a lot of the left accept that a go with inventing play ethics or some other sort of balancing act, in reality its BS, there's tons of left wing thinkers who appear to be very fond of work ethics, in fact most of the left wing, in its early period a least, saw people are frustrated producers rather than frustrated consumers (though even that was more of a universal theme than it is today and I'll not pretend its anything other than the case).

Its all a kind of BS spectrum of right wing thought, its mature to be right wing and immature or adolescent to be left wing, who the hell should accept that? Not a left winger to begin with, not anyone I would suggest since its bad for the person pushing half truths at best to have their story accepted readily by others too.

 

[Lark]

I gave up on humanity a long time ago, life is defficult, most people are not have no clue how it is being viewed from your side, this not heaven, we just have to deal with it I guess..

I find it easier to accept someone telling me they gave up on this or that human being than on humanity per se, its so much easier in reality to love a vague, abstract, often grandiose notion, than it is an individual example of it that doesnt measure up well to the idealised picture.

For my part, I dont anything to do with the pessimism parade and party, I can be as gloomy as the next person, especially if I find a feeling and pass it on in a group of people getting their rant on, but in calmer moments I've got to admit that's just as eschewed an idea as pretending that everything is great and everyone is great and its all going to get greater still. The reality is likely to be so much more mundane than that and if you read enough Orwell, his journalism, letters mainly, you'll know that's in fact a good thing and appreciable for what it is, the world is far short of utopia then its not exactly a dystopia either.

Is there a lot of depression on this forum or are the stoners just smoking the wrong shit or out of shit or shits in short supply again?

 

[geedoenfj]

I find it easier to accept someone telling me they gave up on this or that human being than on humanity per se, its so much easier in reality to love a vague, abstract, often grandiose notion, than it is an individual example of it that doesnt measure up well to the idealised picture.

For my part, I dont anything to do with the pessimism parade and party, I can be as gloomy as the next person, especially if I find a feeling and pass it on in a group of people getting their rant on, but in calmer moments I've got to admit that's just as eschewed an idea as pretending that everything is great and everyone is great and its all going to get greater still. The reality is likely to be so much more mundane than that and if you read enough Orwell, his journalism, letters mainly, you'll know that's in fact a good thing and appreciable for what it is, the world is far short of utopia then its not exactly a dystopia either.

Is there a lot of depression on this forum or are the stoners just smoking the wrong shit or out of shit or shits in short supply again?

I understand that you mean I cannot just sweep generalizations on such a grand scale, and I am not sweeping generalizations, I don't think all people are bad or anything, we all have our nice sides and our dark sides, but looking at what is happening in the world in general and how people react to it, how they form opinions, of course, how different would it when it is a direct experience vs. distant experience and they only get the privilege of talking and judging from their very narrow prespective, without taking a moment to zoom in on the essence of this issue, or to zoom out to think out of the box a little bit..
Don't make me start on the negativity, not only in the forum but in general, I'm starting to think there's no such thing as T vs F, because each person is actually acting like an attorney, they take sides because their F is telling them to take this side, then they start cherry-pick evidences to suit those feelings, and they would feel intimidated when the other party makes rational claims and bring new evidences that eliminates the rationing of the first party and so on, I sometimes realize I am more thinker and rational than many thinkers
The utopia and dystopia depends on many factors, the place the person live in, the circumstances they were brought up, their philosophy of life etc.

 

[Kanra Jest]

Pretty sure that's one of the most biased things I've ever seen.

I dont accept most of the framing of discussions or territorial demarcations in thinking as "left" or "right", if I take a simple one, a very simple one, the right is supposedly the purveyor of the work ethic and the left not, now a lot of the left accept that a go with inventing play ethics or some other sort of balancing act, in reality its BS, there's tons of left wing thinkers who appear to be very fond of work ethics, in fact most of the left wing, in its early period a least, saw people are frustrated producers rather than frustrated consumers (though even that was more of a universal theme than it is today and I'll not pretend its anything other than the case).

Its all a kind of BS spectrum of right wing thought, its mature to be right wing and immature or adolescent to be left wing, who the hell should accept that? Not a left winger to begin with, not anyone I would suggest since its bad for the person pushing half truths at best to have their story accepted readily by others too.

Your right. I do agree but there's things we don't acknowledge in it though often that is the result of human flaws that we don't wish to face. Not to mention I've no problem with the death penalty as it is often necessary, and find people today's resisting of cops to be a bit... counterproductive and not the people in charge's fault(usually) but people just freak out and won't face such painful truths. It has some importance to it, but it is far too strict and "traditional" and all that crap. I support gay rights and all that. I would be more of a center-left. It's just there are a few things, "a few" I can understand and believe some sense of order is very important and giving the people all the power can be just as dangerous as those in power. So I believe it brings up some good points in it, regardless of it's overall greater inaccuracy as a whole concept.

 

[Cellmold]

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

He was mean.

He was mean to the bullies.

Why? MBTI probably explains it a bit.

For his personality, fighting on behalf of the one picked on was probably very confidence boosting.

He probably felt like the Hand of Karma, aggressing against aggressors.

Why were any of the others mean?

The others were bullies because of feelings of insecurity, both instinctual and through environment.

Did you see the show? Charlie was not mean to the bullies, he just stopped them from harming the new chimp. He was kind.

He may have had a instinctual sense that group cooperation is needed in order to survive. Darwin actually did not promote the idea of individual selection - every creature for himself, but instead group selection in which acts of altruism from the individual can ensure the survival of the species. Individual survival at the cost of others is destruction, and often counterproductive to survival. It is a coping mechanism for harm.

Edit: there is one type of moral reasoning that reduces every concept to a binary proposition. It is a way to excuse any type of behavior. It is a way to negate a sense of morality. Saying that every creature is mean, but they just direct it differently negates the truth about moral behavior. To act defensively in order to protect is not equivalent to acting offensively to harm and dominate. Within each of those concepts exists a continuum. The same arguments are falsely made for abortion, diet, etc. People will say eating a vegetable is killing a plant and therefore an equivalent action to eating an intelligent lifeform. Once again, it reduces it to a binary proposition in order to negate morality. Not to become too tangential, but the diet issue would then morally justify eating people just as easily as a salad. It isn't a rational approach. Protective behaviors can also be reduced to a binary proposition, which distorts the reality of it and nullifies morality.

 

[Lark]

I understand that you mean I cannot just sweep generalizations on such a grand scale, and I am not sweeping generalizations, I don't think all people are bad or anything, we all have our nice sides and our dark sides, but looking at what is happening in the world in general and how people react to it, how they form opinions, of course, how different would it when it is a direct experience vs. distant experience and they only get the privilege of talking and judging from their very narrow prespective, without taking a moment to zoom in on the essence of this issue, or to zoom out to think out of the box a little bit..
Don't make me start on the negativity, not only in the forum but in general, I'm starting to think there's no such thing as T vs F, because each person is actually acting like an attorney, they take sides because their F is telling them to take this side, then they start cherry-pick evidences to suit those feelings, and they would feel intimidated when the other party makes rational claims and bring new evidences that eliminates the rationing of the first party and so on, I sometimes realize I am more thinker and rational than many thinkers
The utopia and dystopia depends on many factors, the place the person live in, the circumstances they were brought up, their philosophy of life etc.

I think the utopia or dystopia can be objectively decided but then that's just me, many wouldnt agree.

I agree with you about T and F but then its difficult because to generalise about "those who behave that way" fails to take into account that everyone does it and its not restricted to a population of "others" who're perpetually wrong (see even in that the same thing is operative).

Sometimes when everyone is being negative or negativity appears all around it means you are or are called to be the positive to counter it all.

 

[geedoenfj]

I think the utopia or dystopia can be objectively decided but then that's just me, many wouldnt agree.

I agree with you about T and F but then its difficult because to generalise about "those who behave that way" fails to take into account that everyone does it and its not restricted to a population of "others" who're perpetually wrong (see even in that the same thing is operative).

Sometimes when everyone is being negative or negativity appears all around it means you are or are called to be the positive to counter it all.

I think you're right, I specifically liked the last statement.. that is very insightful..
Thank you Lark

 

[Lark]

Your right. I do agree but there's things we don't acknowledge in it though often that is the result of human flaws that we don't wish to face. Not to mention I've no problem with the death penalty as it is often necessary, and find people today's resisting of cops to be a bit... counterproductive and not the people in charge's fault(usually) but people just freak out and won't face such painful truths. It has some importance to it, but it is far too strict and "traditional" and all that crap. I support gay rights and all that. I would be more of a center-left. It's just there are a few things, "a few" I can understand and believe some sense of order is very important and giving the people all the power can be just as dangerous as those in power. So I believe it brings up some good points in it, regardless of it's overall greater inaccuracy as a whole concept.

What if I told you that I'm a far left communist but dont "support gay rights and all that" and totally support traditions and traditionalism, at least as much as I do innovation and change per se?

I dont think people fail to acknowledge human flaws so much as they are unconscious of the social product with political consequences which is social character, although perhaps the escape/fear of freedom that produces most of it is a human flaw or failing, you'd have to be a superhuman to resist it in any case and there's not a human alive today who could claim not to more or less conform to social character.

A lot of the confusion in the world today arises from the conflating of ethics, norms and mores with politics and the political order, the state is God and perceived to be able to transform anything that even people vote or hope for, the limits of it will be discovered shortly, just how disillusionment will set and and what it'll mean will be interesting if I live long enough to see that day dawn I'll be happy (and very old).

Though even if that was settled the nature of social character and is political consequences will only be on the periphery of most peoples radars.

 

[prplchknz]

Don't give up, we have hot dog pizza! Wonder of wonders, miracle of miracles!

i need this

 

[S16M4]

What if I told you that I'm a far left communist but dont "support gay rights and all that" and totally support traditions and traditionalism, at least as much as I do innovation and change per se?

I dont think people fail to acknowledge human flaws so much as they are unconscious of the social product with political consequences which is social character, although perhaps the escape/fear of freedom that produces most of it is a human flaw or failing, you'd have to be a superhuman to resist it in any case and there's not a human alive today who could claim not to more or less conform to social character.

A lot of the confusion in the world today arises from the conflating of ethics, norms and mores with politics and the political order, the state is God and perceived to be able to transform anything that even people vote or hope for, the limits of it will be discovered shortly, just how disillusionment will set and and what it'll mean will be interesting if I live long enough to see that day dawn I'll be happy (and very old).

Though even if that was settled the nature of social character and is political consequences will only be on the periphery of most peoples radars.

The only reason Left or Right was brought up in the first place is because of the thread title, but I'm enjoying this tangent.

 

[anticlimatic]

Congratulations on your escape from the proverbial progressive matrix. Welcome to earf. After the shock subsides I think you'll find some new and even more beautiful definitions of "good."

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

i need this

Everyone needs that. Except me. I don't really like hot dogs.