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  1. #11
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    I'm pretty much in the "we'll find out" boat.
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  2. #12
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    I had an idea for a short story the once where Richard Dawkins was off to a religious debate and gets hit by lightning. Even though he is taken to hospital, he dies from his injuries.

    As he passes, he is surrounded by bright light and feels like he is being pulled somewhere. He finds himself in strange surroundings, but feels an overwhelming feeling of safety. He hears a voice calling to him from behind, a familiar voice. He turns around.

    It is his old friend Christopher Hitchens. He explains that this is an afterlife, and that only Atheists are able to live after death; for everyone else, death is the end of it all. Only Atheists can come to this place as they see the universe as it truly is.

    Christopher explains further, that the afterlife gives a purpose to Atheists in that universes come and go, but each universe is different and it is up to each Atheist to determine the fate of each universe and manage it how they want. Doing it well can achieve an even higher state of consciousness. Richard asks whether this is "becoming God" and Christopher firmly states that no, it isn't, he and Richard are who they have always been.

    Richard hesitates to understand what is happening. Christopher calmly tells him that the afterlife and each universe is an extension of themselves, free to create and free to destroy. Christopher takes Richard to show him a universe he is currently managing, but the universe isn't doing too well and is beginning to disintegrate, his fifth failure, Christopher explains that he tried to manage it right, but each time he tried to change things for the better, things got worse for each universe.

    Richard has an idea, he explains that he will have a universe, but do nothing to it. Christopher explains that if you do nothing, the singularity the universe comes from remains stable and never becomes a universe. Richard then says he will simply wait forever, since he has forever to wait.

    He waits forever and the universe springs into being all by itself, all without intervention. It is perfect, everything forms in the right way, life begins and flourishes and evolves into beings with a higher state of existence. Richard becomes one with them.

    The end

  3. #13

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    I am atheist, so I do not believe in a god, higher power, or any sort of spiritual stuff.

    There is no evidence or reason to believe in any sort of thing, so I don't. Until a point comes where it's clear there is something, I operate that there is nothing.

    That's my simple/succinct answer anyway.
    It is our duty to create meaning.

    If only it were that simple.
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  4. #14
    The more you know.. geedoenfj's Avatar
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    I believe there's God, this universe is working in a very complicated system that our human brain is still in journey of figuring it out, everything cannot be running it self, or most accurately created itself..
    “You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.”
    - Naguib Mahfouz



    6w7 > 1w2 > 2w3


  5. #15
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    I believe God exists because he exists.
    Other people don't believe God exists because God exists.
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  6. #16
    You are what you love fetus's Avatar
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    Can God ever be proven by scientific means? No. Does he exist? Maybe, maybe not. Do I believe? Yeah.

    I'm a (low-key, non-zealous) Christian. Having a God makes me feel better emotionally. It's simply for my own stability, and it provides me with some good community. I met my best friends at church, and I'm very active in my youth group.

    The other day I went on a long Twitter rant about how my views make me feel isolated from the Christian community--for instance, pro-LGBT, pro-choice, pro-science, pro-evolution, etc. It's hard because Christians are associated with the opposite of those. I need to find some liberal, science-oriented, searching Christians.
    6w7 // 2w3 // xxx

  7. #17
    Damn American Cowboy Reborn Relic's Avatar
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    Perhaps a slight tangent, @Osprey , but on some level it doesn't necessarily matter whether or not god has set a role for us if we're capable of such a role without Him/Her/It. Can, can equal will. :p

    Quote Originally Posted by themightyfetus View Post
    Can God ever be proven by scientific means? No. Does he exist? Maybe, maybe not. Do I believe? Yeah.

    I'm a (low-key, non-zealous) Christian. Having a God makes me feel better emotionally. It's simply for my own stability, and it provides me with some good community. I met my best friends at church, and I'm very active in my youth group.

    The other day I went on a long Twitter rant about how my views make me feel isolated from the Christian community--for instance, pro-LGBT, pro-choice, pro-science, pro-evolution, etc. It's hard because Christians are associated with the opposite of those. I need to find some liberal, science-oriented, searching Christians.
    Out of curiousity, where are you from?

    Also, this place may be a good start.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

    --Theodore Roosevelt


    “Be careful, lest in casting out your demon you exorcise the best thing in you.”

    --Friedrich Nietzche

    I have a Johari again

  8. #18
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    Many years ago I for an unrelated reason I had every incentive to believe in God or Christianity to be specific, but I've had a lot of doubts, so I arranged a meeting with a priest and the end result was he actively advising me Christianity is not for a person such as I, and he genuinely was discouraging me going down that path while he was explaining a few things to me.

    He did a lot of research in his youth, like me, question every evidence that's been presented, verifying their validity and accuracy. He also looked at religions beyond Christianity, like Buddhism, Hinduism etc. But in the end, like themightyfetus, he's concluded that god can never be 100% proven. In fact, few things in live can be 100% proven. So what made him devote himself to Christianity he said, was faith. He said if he can prove 70% that god exist, then faith is what makes up the remaining 30%, also implying taking the leap of faith is essentially accepting the risk of 30% chance being inaccurate.

    The OP asked what harm is there to believe in god? And what ultimately drives a person to either taking the leap or faith or not? I think it comes down to a basic cost benefit analysis occurs in the back of our heads. The many attractive things that comes along with believing in God as mentioned in the OP's video, versus negatives such as various rules like forbidden sex before marriage and homosexuality (though this is changing) for Christians, forbidden to eat meat for Buddhism, and more importantly as I mentioned, is braving the risk of being inaccurate.

    Now how important is the value of accuracy, along with the compliance of those rules, is a very person matter. Just like some people value stability, others value harmony. As a result everyone's cost-benefit analysis varies greatly. Following the previous example, if there is enough evidence to prove 70% of God's existence, someone who values accuracy highly would choose to believe it at 70%, leave the rest open without being in a hurry to conclude. Others might feel like leaving it open leaves them directionless, and they feel the need to make a decision for closure, so they might either choose to take the leap of faith or don't believe it entirely.

    At the end of our talk, the priest concluded that I am not suitable for Christianity, that I am the type to be happily leaving things open ended and that there is no place for a religion in me, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. At Home - Personality Type and Personal Growth | Personality Hacker they label my primary function Ti as "accuracy" in some of their very informative podcasts, quite accurately (no pun intended) because it has a lot to do with double checking and triple checking data for discrepancies and reliability. And this being the Primary function means accuracy is super high on my list of values. I suspect many INTP will share this view having the same Ti primary function.

  9. #19
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I believe God exists because he exists.
    Other people don't believe God exists because God exists.
    But but but what if God didn't exist? Would you be an Atheist then?

  10. #20
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    I would say it depends on how you define "God"

    If you mean the anthropomorphic deity who possesses human-like values and an apparently approaches governing the universe like a human might, then I would say...very likely not. If you wanted to go the more metaphysical Ultimate Realty/The Eternal Tao version of God, I would say that's far more likely but also so impossible to define or measure and that such a deity would ultimately be superfluous.

    Me personally, I like to look at the values and the application of said values and judge them on their merits.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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