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Is there any place time where it's okay to talk about anything outside regular life?

Blackout

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I've just noticed generally when it comes to most places or social situations and people it's generally not acceptable or okay to talk about topics that aren't related to the going's on of regular or everyday life, and I was just wondering if it's ever considered okay or acceptable anywhere?

It seems only really okay to talk about things you buy, what you eat and things like that, and nothing really else. Even if you try to talk about deeper things behind those they are kind of shunned or not wanted. It really seems to offend/frighten or scare people.
 
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This is more related to who you're talking to than a place or time imo. Sometimes, people aren't interested in certain subject matters, can't participate in the conversation for fear of looking stupid, are distrustful and think you have an agenda, or are too hot tempered to have certain conversations, ime.
 

Lillita

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I've noticed that too. It's like a pre-written script of social niceties with no one being themselves, haha. What's really funny is the reactions when you reject the script.
 

Blackout

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I've noticed that too. It's like a pre-written script of social niceties with no one being themselves, haha. What's really funny is the reactions when you reject the script.

Well I have read in numerous places that it's very much a social norms thing for western society especially to be focused on being practical or very pragmatic and thus anything outside of that doesn't seem to really matter. I've noticed that most conversations as well that linger on most topics generally can only be sarcastic, cynical or witticism.

I guess it's really dependent on whether or not you are an extrovert or not as well...

Are introverts and intuitives as well really that rare? It's really hard to find people I can relate or talk to, and even with other self identified N's they are still kind of act the same way. I mean, I was reprimanded by an INTP I knew who would criticize me for not being more socially acceptable/outgoing, well mannered or just basically conforming enough to standards that don't come natural or fit my nature. I've also met some INFP's who were kind of strict and thought basically you know, same case with the INTP really.

There was only one other person, an ENFP who I got along with out of all the other N's who knew there type, I don't think anybody liked her though and she wasn't accepted as well. It was really stupid and people would get mad at her or judge her simply by not acting or thinking the right way. I kind of wish I kept in touch with her now.

It's like there's this weird smoke screen too and even if the tradition is not true or doesn't really hold much credence to a topic or situation everyone will stick to it like dogma or religion. The tradition or social norm is always right or the matter and topic doesn't exist if it doesn't easily fit into it either.
 

Blackout

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It's really weird too, one of the INFP girls that I had a fair amount of common with was kind of "hippie" and had some dreads was all in to hemp and veganism and that stuff, eastern philosophy, she was super cute; but she shunned or looked down on alternative people and was actually kind of conservative, or maybe "neo-liberal" is the word? I think a lot of people now who consider themselves on the left are really sort of just neo-liberals and...it's a very different concept.

She was kind of judgemental, and strict, old-fashioned. I have actually found this new resurgence of hippies or whatever they consider themselves "neo-liberals" are actually all quite conservative ironically. But not really even "let's go back to the 60's/70's" though, I suppose that's what some of it is but what's wrong is they think everyone should think or act that way, and they are staunchly stuck in the past. It's really ironic and weird.

But I think she turned against all that stuff because she realized that most of the world doesn't accept or disavows it but it's like she accepted it as real truth instead of it simply being the existing social order or some such thing and decided to hold it against everyone else. That whole "THIS IS THE WAY THE WORLD, YOUR NOT SPECIAL WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT" kind of thing.

And there was one INFJ, but she seemed more like an ENTJ, lol. She thought I was really weird, but she was more to earth, but more like "THE WAY I THINK IS REALITY, THERE ARE NO OTHER POSSIBILITIES, MYSTERIES IN THE WORLD" kind of vibe from her where reality is completely decided upon or set in stone and anything kind of divergent is weird or abnormal.

Oh and one thing that's sooooooooooo annoying and hypocritical is that liberalism was originally supposed to be about accepting diversity and those who are from other walks of life a bit more, but the only diversity any cares about is sexual preferences or some stupid thing.
 

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I bring up obscure topics always, I never have problems.
 

PeaceBaby

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Oh and one thing that's sooooooooooo annoying and hypocritical is that liberalism was originally supposed to be about accepting diversity and those who are from other walks of life a bit more, but the only diversity any cares about is sexual preferences or some stupid thing.

You're noticing values-based discrepancies, and learning how to articulate this. Be aware that most people have no perspective on how the things they denounce in one breath are near-exactly the things that they condone in the next. You will not be popular in pointing it out, nor will you meet with a receptive audience regarding these topics in general, primarily because the vast majority of people have either no trouble with their own self-serving / double-standards OR (mostly) truly lack sufficient insight into themselves to see this discrepancy.
 

Evo

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I've noticed it. But I think it depends on who I'm talking to. I think this is why I tend to want to talk to people with sx. They get to the deep shit without having to buffer their presentation every time. With my friends I've made it a thing to just randomly start talking about ideas and concepts. I cannot do this with some friends though.

Now that I wrote that whole thing out, I have no idea if I'm talking about the thing as you.
 

Mole

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I've noticed it. But I think it depends on who I'm talking to. I think this is why I tend to want to talk to people with sx. They get to the deep shit without having to buffer their presentation every time. With my friends I've made it a thing to just randomly start talking about ideas and concepts. I cannot do this with some friends though.

Now that I wrote that whole thing out, I have no idea if I'm talking about the thing as you.

Some of us talk about ideas and concepts because we are uncomfortable with our feelings. And so we rush back to ideas and concepts rather than talking about our feelings.

Not being able to talk about our feelings with those close to us is a real disability, and certainly puts the kibosh on warm relationships.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Some of us talk about ideas and concepts because we are uncomfortable with our feelings. And so we rush back to ideas and concepts rather than talking about our feelings.

Not being able to talk about our feelings with those close to us is a real disability, and certainly puts the kibosh on warm relationships.

Honestly, I've seen her talk about her feelings more on here than I've seen you talk about your feelings.
 

CitizenErased

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I think, as many said, that it depends who you're talking to. I can't express how much I hate banal talk, it is beyond words. I simply walk out on people when they start topics I can't stand, such as family issues, the media, private life of actors/musicians, regular female topics such as makeup, hairstyles and random guys/girls they like. I like weird theories about anything, talking about levels of psychopathy (like me wanting to smash babies into a huge rock when they cry or feeling pleasure tearing off legs from beetles).

Yes, there are people, places and moments in which saying this or that is correct/incorrect (acceptable/not acceptable). I don't care much about that division because I either say something "incorrect" or stay silent. I mean, to have a "correct" behaviour, I must stay silent. I'm capable of telling the story of a fetus burnt to death with saline to a pregnant woman. No remorse, and most importantly, I probably won't notice it's out of place until way after I said it.

So, all in all, it's acceptable to oneself as long as one is comfortable talking about that without caring about what other people think. It's acceptable to others as long as they want to hear it/talk about it. Just like anything in life.
 
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Tazzie

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I want to be sure that I understand. But what questions that off topic or not related to going on of everyday life you meaning? Such as family problems or the significant of a art picture, or the possibility of the future?

I've notice it. But I think it depends on who you are talking to, how long you known them for and maybe trust. In person with majority of people I just met or known for little while, I don't like to get into a deep discussion. But it because I don't trust them yet. I'm more of a private person. Average it takes me around minimum 4 months or longer with a new friend to really open up or be ok with getting into a deep discussion. And it easier for me if it one on one chat. Maybe in general be patient, get to know them, and in time they'll be more willing to talk about anything and go deep.
 

Mole

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What is interesting is everyday life, it is amazing that everything seems normal, however we can look at the quotidian with an original eye. That's what I do here, and ironically I am accused of being off topic.

But how do we get an original eye?

We need to be in touch with our deepest feelings as well able to think critically. This is probably not possible until our brain is fully grown at about the age of twenty-two.

In the meantime we run around like rabbits afraid of our own feelings and pretending to be grown up. And we aggressively defend our immature ego.
 

Zangetshumody

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my two cents.

I believe this topic and discussion is about each person's two cents. I will try to define what exactly "two cents" means. Two cents is an odd amount of money, so obscure, that it becomes its own kind of currency. No-one intrinsically cares much for the amount of two cents, the value given to the two cents, comes from regarding it as a token of who provided his/her "two cents".

We all want special attention given to our particular interests, the problem with sharing an obscure interest, is that it requires some kind of mutual attraction toward a shared investment, of time and mental-energy, in the communication of the obscure interest (or topic). I would hazard that most people are interested in sharing something that's rarely considered socially-useful, as a topic for discussion, sx types are better at accessing this capacity, but still, even if you get beneath the regulative purview of the relevant 'social paradigm', there is another level;— of personality based politics, that comes into play. Compatibility on a topic's communication, is hard to discover when "regular culture" attaches taboo's to the significance of a point of view, then also, an "internal" version of moral authority operates, as a kind of relevancy filter, that will manifest as feeling impatient or uninterested in the various spectrum of topics— which exist outside of "practical concern". Personally, I think people's internal states', are important to look-after, and so I think I am particularly well trained in compassionately auditing other people's topics of interest, also because I'm interested in helping with the (existential) plight: which these personal contentions usually contain. The Kantian principle of treating people as ends in themselves is perhaps applicable here... and also the pinnacle of friendship described by Plato.

The original post in this thread, is perhaps asking a kind of a question, which is linked more closely with a spiritual question: why are most people 'dead' to sharing in a communion, in the realm of mental contemplation? The answer is probably tied up with that old adage, about keeping talk of politics and religion at the dinner table, kept as a normative taboo.

To continue in the view of a broader topic of discussion- modern culture, is growing further dependent on a spiritual development just to keep itself propped up against the weight of its own impending implosion. At some level, politics can only grow more toxic and atomized without having some reference to an understanding of the psychological component in people.

Psychology as it's considered by the Academy, is totally ineffectual and incapable of breaking out of its pre-scientific stalemate. It doesn't have the philosophical rigor with which to extend its discovery, into something that could be a recognized as an empirical account of the mind. [put in link to chomsky saying psychology is pre-scientific]. To further illustrate my point, the academy has no way to fathom or grapple with the approximate validity of typology, its unable even to touch the subject because it's philosophically inept at its core; intellectually bankrupt— one could use the modern economic predicament as the perfect analogy to the self-delusion perpetrated by this superficial field, while it begs neuroscience to confirm its basic philosophical prejudices about itself.

Psychology could be summed up as sharing the same rot, rooted by the fake-empirical 'Scientific' framework,— this philosophical foundation, used by the hard sciences, manages to neatly disguise the source from which any coherency (and truth) might be discovered.

Going back to society at large: similar behavior is occurring at the level of political consciousness- rhetoric that depends on external authorities that can be used to test policy claims, are dividing people into authoritative sects, each peddling their brand of moral-narrative— to the image of a compatibility, within their own personality style (such psychological forces have marked the historical and cultural development of politics since earliest record). What's different now, is that communication technology gives people the insight that would usually take many generations of experience to collect.. people (virtually) have an extended memory, if they so wish, because they can hear about what's happening in all these different countries, at the relative pictures of history that they are providing to us, in real time. And people want to transcend patterns of the limitation they are witnessing, because for once the individual has the extended access to make the 'spiritual' deficit prominent, within the foreground of psyche (and so, this virtual communion, has increased the appeal of a development in understanding liberty (which is a focus on deeper "spirituality", although people yearn to see that liberty expressed on a tangible level));- now some have already sublimated this angst latent within this present Zeitgeist, into the sect of Scientism: decided on blindly going-on with a search to discover "the answer" in the form of an external authority, offered by some factoid that vindicates a deterministic model of control over human pursuits. Diverting attention away from the scale of the full challenge, by acquiescing to a cheap philosophical gimmick, neatly permitted by the generous chasm that is the shill for 'the corrupt project', which has become 'the Academy', and taking the weight of the whole project into a nebulous psychology, that exists to be the nexus of accommodation for the hard science's [craft of] "dominance". This is the same fashion of ideology that has been mimicked by the 'regressive left', and third wave feminism, who all sink silently when challenged outside of the dogmatic edifice of misappropriated philosophical clout.

Fascism is literally at the door, but we know whose rung the door-bell, because we have a camera streaming it live. Only by forging a solid collaboration, which develops from a complete psychological understanding, offering its security of mutual respect and self-knowledge, will produce a household [politically] capable of keeping the abyss on the other side of the locked door, united in its refrain from the mistake of opening the door to fascism. The academy draws half of its authority by mimicking the political strategy through an inherent promise of narrative dominion, in the fabrication it uses for a philosophical edifice (which contains a stupidity that must deprecate both humanity and "reality", in its failing to capture knowledge of either, by designing a sense of "empirical" that offends reasoning).

Science gets away with asking for something unreal because people believe it deserves the pride accorded to it. This is a similar trend in contemporary political ideology (and obtuse forms of philosophical discourse, ie philosophical Skepticism, that can use a form of self-pity, to make everything about how its relating the world to itself, through its own limited schema).

In conclusion, the pace of cultural development, from the acceleration of consciousness offered to it (by communications technology), demands a certain resolution: the problem is, that organisation is not the basic "state of nature", if there is a (real) revolution at all to come, it must be built from the middle, not the top or bottom, and that means contending with all the pertinent issues in the middle, and having access from the middle to influence both the top and bottom quarters of our [matrix-]"system". The middle analogy, is the best analogy I can make for describing the style of the South African Revolution of 1994;- compassion for the victims, and compassion for the perpetrators: because the narratives of "the enemy" is only ever ignored with the cost of duplicating the oppression— which is too tangential for me to lay out in this post, but Hegelian dialectical-thinking would probably be my approximate point on this issue, the enemy is only conquered when "their" internal reasoning is understood to be mistaken, because there is a working resolve that exceeds any lingering specter of indictment (from the old ways), by its present works: shirking this path of transformation, leads to turmoil, idealistic peddling that will either make people into lemmings, or destroy the broader potential our society contains.
 
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Mole

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To take part in the excitement and pleasure of the intellectual life requires we are compelled by State law to attend a special institution called a school with specially trained teachers in order to learn to read and write.

And education in literacy is free, secular and compulsory for two reasons. First literacy forms the basis of the modern world, and secondly, because literacy is deeply unnatural and counter-intuitive so the State must compel us to learn to be literate.

So it is no surprise that of all those compelled by law to attend school only a small number take to literacy like ducks to water. Only a small number are drawn to the excitement and pleasure of the intellectual life.

Of those not drawn to the intellectual life many realise that they are of a lower status, and in reaction disrespect the intellectuals, calling them pinheads or eggheads.

And so they devote themselves to non-literary pursuits such as football and sport, cars, clothes and fashion, astrology and mbti, all the time feeling a false superiority to the intellectual, the literate individual.

And interestingly literacy is the antidote to both the traditional tribal cultures and to the new electronic tribal cultures. And the public library is the sacred space of literacy, so we should be building libraries in tradional tribal cultures in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia. And we should extend the opening hours of libraries in prosperous countries that have achieved universal literacy.

To some degree Islamist terrorism gets its origin in Wahabism from the traditional tribal life of desert Arabs. So Islamist terrorism is not so much a clash of civilizations but a clash of a spoken culture with a literate culture.

Sigmund Freud wrote of Civilization and its Discontents but he may as well have been writing about literacy and its discontents. And even Shakespeare gave us the schoolboy -

the whining school-boy with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school.


No wonder so few of us enjoy the excitement and pleasure of the intellectual life, and no wonder so many have been undone.
 

Typh0n

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To take part in the excitement and pleasure of the intellectual life requires we are compelled by State law to attend a special institution called a school with specially trained teachers in order to learn to read and write.

And education in literacy is free, secular and compulsory for two reasons. First literacy forms the basis of the modern world, and secondly, because literacy is deeply unnatural and counter-intuitive so the State must compel us to learn to be literate.

So it is no surprise that of all those compelled by law to attend school only a small number take to literacy like ducks to water. Only a small number are drawn to the excitement and pleasure of the intellectual life.

Of those not drawn to the intellectual life many realise that they are of a lower status, and in reaction disrespect the intellectuals, calling them pinheads or eggheads.

And so they devote themselves to non-literary pursuits such as football and sport, cars, clothes and fashion, astrology and mbti, all the time feeling a false superiority to the intellectual, the literate individual.

And interestingly literacy is the antidote to both the traditional tribal cultures and to the new electronic tribal cultures. And the public library is the sacred space of literacy, so we should be building libraries in tradional tribal cultures in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia. And we should extend the opening hours of libraries in prosperous countries that have achieved universal literacy.

To some degree Islamist terrorism gets its origin in Wahabism from the traditional tribal life of desert Arabs. So Islamic terrorism is not so much a clash of civilizations but a clash of a spoken culture with a literate culture.

Sigmund Freud wrote of Civilization and its Discontents but he may as well have been writing about literacy and its discontents. And even Shakespeare gave as the schoolboy -
the whining school-boy with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school.


No wonder so few of us enjoy the excitement and pleasure of the intellectual life, and no wonder so many have been undone.

Real intellectual life takes part outside of grade school, ime.
 
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