Heresy and Witchcraft

[Thalassa]

Ok.

Yes, the fear of witchcraft is related to glamour and the evil eye, basically the capacity to charm to change someone to your will and make them do what you want. Witches were feared during the middle ages, reformation, and rennaissance because people were so irrational and primitive passions were so conscious, people were afraid of the witch who would manipulate their wills. Nowadays people think themselves more rational, but the primitive passions are still there, and can be tapped into by someone who excercises fascination and glamour (willingly or not).

View attachment 16484
Black Magic, by William Mortensen

The above image is a typical Mortensen photograph designed to evoke a strong response in onlookers. Could be considered witchcraft in and of itself.

But we're getting sidetracked, since my OP was about how to infleunce and challenge others intellectually, not emotionally. The artist's purpose is to cause reactions, as Marilyn Manson once said. Thats the witch, that tries to affect only the emotional. But I see it as less my own purpose to evoke strong emotions than to cause people to think, and appeal to intellect as opposed to emotion. Where does that leave me? A simple heretic? Where I am going is that maybe witchcraft tries to influence people towards unorthodox (read: not accpeted by society) ends using emotion, passion, fear, and desire where heresy attempts to lead people down the same path through logic and reason. So what is tradionally labelled "heresy" and "witchcraft", their purpose is the same, their means of acheiving that purpose is different.

European tribes, as well as Arabic tribes in the further back Old Testament world, had different religious beliefs than Jews or Christians, then later, Muslims. I doubt many of these people were intentionally trolling the RCC or anyone else, they simply had different spiritual beliefs and rituals, and in the Medieval world especially these cultures lingered strongly even among the churched. In the late 20th century, I grew up with superstition interweaved with Christianity, carried from who knows how far back in European or Native American cultures, beliefs about luck, spirits or "evil." Catholicism always appealed to me because of their Medieval attempt to blend some of those cultural aspects into the church, but of course I know they had strict limits with what they accepted or rejected, and if one took a step too far towards, say,being a Druid, they risked being accused of witchcraft.

 

[Typh0n]

European tribes, as well as Arabic tribes in the further back Old Testament world, had different religious beliefs than Jews or Christians, then later, Muslims. I doubt many of these people were intentionally trolling the RCC or anyone else, they simply had different spiritual beliefs and rituals, and in the Medieval world especially these cultures lingered strongly even among the churched.

Somewhat true, from what I know pre-Abrahamic religions were mostly wiped out by the church, though it was harder for the church to wipe out pagan beliefs from rural areas than urban ones. I doubt most people burned for witchcraft were actual witches, like you said yourself they were just eccentric folks, people who gave an impression of the evil eye because they were a bit mysterious, medicine women would fall into that category for example. Also, there was a need for scapegoats back then; plague? Must God is mad at the Jews. Bad harvest? Must be a curse. Then if its a curse, we need to find the witch and kill her. Etc, just false cause and effect at work in people's minds.

And theres another thing. While most people who were accused of magic and witchcraft where perhaps not witches, there were groups (when the church was losing its influence in Europe) like the Hellfire Club in England as well as black masses in Paris etc. Also, the Leo Taxil hoax.

In the late 20th century, I grew up with superstition interweaved with Christianity, carried from who knows how far back in European or Native American cultures, beliefs about luck, spirits or "evil." Catholicism always appealed to me because of their Medieval attempt to blend some of those cultural aspects into the church, but of course I know they had strict limits with what they accepted or rejected, and if one took a step too far towards, say,being a Druid, they risked being accused of witchcraft.

Thats pretty cool, I think in some places of the world like Brazil and the Caribbean the pre-Chirstian traditions have been better preserved than in Europe by the RCC.

 

[Thalassa]

Somewhat true, from what I know pre-Abrahamic religions were mostly wiped out by the church, though it was harder for the church to wipe out pagan beliefs from rural areas than urban ones. I doubt most people burned for witchcraft were actual witches, like you said yourself they were just eccentric folks, people who gave an impression of the evil eye because they were a bit mysterious, medicine women would fall into that category for example. Also, there was a need for scapegoats back then; plague? Must God is mad at the Jews. Bad harvest? Must be a curse. Then if its a curse, we need to find the witch and kill her. Etc, just false cause and effect at work in people's minds.

And theres another thing. While most people who were accused of magic and witchcraft where perhaps not witches, there were groups (when the church was losing its influence in Europe) like the Hellfire Club in England as well as black masses in Paris etc. Also, the Leo Taxil hoax.



Thats pretty cool, I think in some places of the world like Brazil and the Caribbean the pre-Chirstian traditions have been better preserved than in Europe by the RCC.

There are people who actually claim to be black mass witches, and one of the problems I believe was originally stated in the Old Testament with pagan religions was violence and sexual immorality - and by sexual immorality, things like rape, child molestation and eunichs, not committed loving homosexual relationships, I do know one of the reasons homosexuality was seen as an abomination was because of child sexual slavery. ..and by violence, things like people sacrificing their own children for spells...stuff that actually was socially harmful. I'm not suggesting all pagan people were peaceful victims, but the church went way too far at that time with driving out people of other belief systems who weren't commiting heinous crimes. The Salem Witch trials for example were largely bias against West African hoodoo, and fear of young girls doing what amounted to playing stupid teenage pranks. Those were not Catholics of course but Puritans. ..I have a fairly special distaste for Puritanism, as I know it's the roots of ignorance in literal fundamentalist Christianity we still see today, and it really was crazy restrictive on all human pleasure and enjoyment.

 

[Coriolis]

Uh ...as far as I know the whole witchcraft thing was hostility at pagan women or even Christian women who for whatever reason - asexuality, lesbianism, or even hypersexuality - didn't conform to the church of the era's teachings about everyone be married and reproduce as much as possible. From what I understand many "witches" were the equivalent of medicine women, or even just loners who didn't want a family or to become a nun, so they lived alone, something considered totally normal now.

I don't think most "witches" did it out of any smug detachment, it's just that time in society took issue with them being themselves. The modern day equivalent of hating LGBTQ people for merely existing and having the audacity to live their lives.

This is a big part of it. In both Europe and the US, though, property/land disputes were a significant motivation as well. People denounced neighbors or relatives as witches so their property was forfeit and the accusers could lay claim to it. So, greed plus intolerance - always a nasty combination.