Sharia law and Islam

[Poki]

I have read that sharia law conflicts with quran, yet has been conjoined with Islam. Where does the law actually stand from pure religious standpoint?

 

[Poki]

I take it no one can explain or knows.

As i am reading the quran i have some differences to point out. This is the english version, so any one who has read the quran in arabic please point out anything i misquote or misunderstand.

In the quran it mentions of cutting off hands/feet for those who are addicted to theft. It does not define what addicted is though. But the sharia states and one who steals will have their right hand cut off from what i have read.

Quran also goes on to state that muslims have a right with jews for just punishment is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, etc. Directly after that it says this punishment can be given up and upon giving up the punishment the sins are cleared. It says anything beyond the right is not just and is forbidden. I will have to go back, but when you tie that into the genera theme so far it would suggest that to give up the right causes God to love you, to enact equitable actions is your right. He will neither see good nor bad...it is just.

I have also come across articles of muslims doing a comparison of sharia law with that of the quran as well as the judgements of muhammad and they do not align either. According to these people true muslims, not what the quran refers to as disbelievers turn to the quran for how to live life, not sharia law. Sharia laws pushes people to fall into the disbelievers category.

This actually pushes me to even further understand why some will not refer to them as radical islam, because they are not islam. They are just people of the nation they belong to who have become so disconnected from actual religion these people see them as disbelievers...aka...not muslim or islam.

I am a person of truth and if sharia law is the truth from a religious stand point you can turn to the quran and deduce the same message without knowledge of sharia. But you cant, you first have to know sharia law and from that you can cherry pick things out of context for support which our world is infamous for doing. Using current belief and turning to the bible to find something that supports it.

Correct me if i am wrong.

It is crazy how people ignore the truth and fight with pulling anything out of their ass that supports it without understanding the ramifications of doing so. That is what drives me nuts about "principle" because that word is used for defense when there is no justification based on current situation.

 

[Zangetshumody]

I have not studied Islam extensively enough to have a proper opinion on this particular thread's topic, but I do have a comment about a pertinent subject that relates to this.

Islam is in sore need a reformation, this is obvious for a few reasons that are simple enough and accessible to all who know about the history of the authority in 'Islam', and how it has been claimed to be 'inherited' (because there is no clear indication of how true Authority is to be inherited, hence the immediate split in Islam following the death of the Prophet).

Even talking about a reformation is probably enough to get you killed by a purist-sect existing in either of the two sections in 'Islam'. At this point I would like to point out: that talking about a Reformation in Christianity would similarly carry a death sentence in earlier times.

So much of the nuance in Islam has been lost to the shambles of authoritative traditions, that it might be quite hard to piece together a doctrine that actually makes sense as a spiritual practice, and not just a cultural system of political organisation that was used to advance and harmonize between vastly dividing and backwards traditions that it was displacing while it spread initially. It seems to me, a lot of the core teachings and philosophy in Islam has been overshadowed by literal-oversimplification, but that also there are gaps in the theological expression- that must be respected in the right way, so that progress is not made impossible by tyrants after religious power and their traditions which have littered 'Islam': one can only imagine what might have been lost and perverted through the ideological war between the immediate separators of Islam (and how they might have mimicked each others claims for a "true theological authority", while unconsciously collaborating in the loss of theological virtue, trading theological humility that is naturally capable of fostering a spiritual communion, for titles of power and authority).

In the Christian World, there was not a solitary major split, but one faction did manage to obliterate all the competitors, and under the auspices of the council of Nicaea, probably went onto trample any functional Church according to the true doctrine. A testament to how false power relies on forceful imposition, when its not able to produce substantiations that convincingly convert or overcome its detractors, through the assurance of a theologically-subversive-trump that fortifies a true believer, for the ungodly to then witness as a comparative torment, in the further costs to their 'false cleverness'.

I would add more to this comment, but then its basically already a different thread... but I would add as a footnote- the book of the bee: 16:43-62 (emphasis on 56-62).

 

[Poki]

I have not studied Islam extensively enough to have a proper opinion on this particular thread's topic, but I do have a comment about a pertinent subject that relates to this.

Islam is in sore need a reformation, this is obvious for a few reasons that are simple enough and accessible to all who know about the history of the authority in 'Islam', and how it has been claimed to be 'inherited' (because there is no clear indication of how true Authority is to be inherited, hence the immediate split in Islam following the death of the Prophet).

Even talking about a reformation is probably enough to get you killed by a purist-sect existing in either of the two sections in 'Islam'. At this point I would like to point out: that talking about a Reformation in Christianity would similarly carry a death sentence in earlier times.

So much of the nuance in Islam has been lost to the shambles of authoritative traditions, that it might be quite hard to piece together a doctrine that actually makes sense as a spiritual practice, and not just a cultural system of political organisation that was used to advance and harmonize between vastly dividing and backwards traditions that it displacing while it was being spread. It seems to me, a lot of the core teachings and philosophy in Islam has been overshadowed by literal-oversimplification, but that also there are gaps in the theological expression- that must be respected in the right way, so that progress is not made impossible by tyrants after religious power and their traditions which have littered 'Islam': one can only imagine what might have been lost and perverted through the ideological war between the immediate separators of Islam (and how they might have mimicked each others claims for a "true theological authority", while unconsciously collaborating in the loss of theological virtue, trading theological humility that is naturally capable of fostering a spiritual communion, for titles of power and authority).

In the Christian World, there was not a solitary major split, but one faction did manage to obliterate all the competitors, and under the auspices of the council of Nicaea, probably went onto trample any functional Church according to the true doctrine. A testament to how false power relies on forceful imposition, when its not able to produce substantiations that convincingly convert or overcome its detractors, through the assurance of a theologically-subversive-trump that fortifies a true believer, for the ungodly to then witness as a comparative torment, in the further costs to their 'false cleverness'.

I would add more to this comment, but then its basically already a different thread... but I would add as a footnote- the book of the bee: 16:43-62 (emphasis on 56-62).

The more and more i read the quran, the more and more i understand what needs to be done. In short the real muslims need to start a religious war. I say this is the pure sense of what religion is. The spreading of the religious belief.

I know people will say, this is what they are trying to do and take over the west. This alone shows the religious war is failing, they need more warriors, they need more fight which means martyrs.

Ahhhh...the words martyrs, we all know about this and all the killings they have done. I mean real martyrs. I read an article the other day about a muslim that can no longer go home to the east because he is a muslim warrior and has gotten numerous death threats. He is a member of a group that is out to spread the word of Islam, to challenge sharia law and its lack of ties to both the quran and to muhammed. He is a real martyr according to the quran, he is willing to die for "Truth" and Islam.

It speaks of a fire that is both on earth and in the hereafter. The fire here is spread by disbelievers. I can tell you the world is full of disbelievers. A disbeliever is someone who either refuses or is ignorant. In this day and age there is NO reason for ignorance. We have to much at our finger tips to stay ignorant. This fire is what the terrorists are spreading, the fire is whats filling the earth, the hate, the fighting, the evil in this world. Ignorance spreads because people believe truth of Islam based on those who speak the loudest and right now that is the terrorists.

Let me give you an example of the fire spreading. The current state of the east is war and sharia law. They are pushing this into the west. We fight it because its not right or just. We put in place laws against religious based laws. we attempt to push away muslim judges who swear an oath to the quran. It is apparently evil and unjust. We fight the muslims for their laws, we push them away verbally, physically, etc. We create seperation, they push harder. We end up in a war against Islam and the followers which are muslim. Hate spreads on both sides, we enter into what we believe is a holy war.

Lets look at a real religious war. The sharia enters into the US. It is pushed as religious laws. Scholars turn to the book and history for analysis, they push back based on religious insight and the fact that it goes against alot of the quran. We welcom real muslims who swear on the quran. They protect Islam, not by war, but by the word of Allah and the actions and beliefs of those who claim muslim. We then help propogate muslims and Islam by bringing into light who they are and what they stand for. We join together and fight terrorism. We ignore that i believe Jesus is God...you know why. Because in christianity eyes praying to God prays to jesus if they believe they are the same, muslims well, they pray to God. We fight in the name of God, by propogating truth, by accepting the quran and its words as the actual Islamic religion.

You know what it all starts with? Faith in Islam, trust. How do you build trust and rid ignorance...knowledge. do not close your eyes, or as allah refers to it...donnot let your heart be hardened by the evil...the evil that has spread to the East as well as the west

How do you do this...stand up for the good the bible preaches, muslims need to stand up for the good the quran preaches. Quench the fire that is spreading, quench the evil that is spreading.

In the words of God...if there is but ten righteous will you not save the city..."i will save it for ten" God and Allah are the same...they both believe in the bible and the words of God...which means they both believe in what i just said.

Truth will set us free, lies and corruption will kill us....in the words of the quran...we create and feed our own fire.

 

[geedoenfj]

I take it no one can explain or knows.

As i am reading the quran i have some differences to point out. This is the english version, so any one who has read the quran in arabic please point out anything i misquote or misunderstand.

In the quran it mentions of cutting off hands/feet for those who are addicted to theft. It does not define what addicted is though. But the sharia states and one who steals will have their right hand cut off from what i have read.

Cutting one hand from the left and one feet from the right is for bandits not for those who are addicted to theft, and cutting left hand for those who robed a significant amount of money, doesn't apply to hungry people stealing food, or during infertility..

Quran also goes on to state that muslims have a right with jews for just punishment is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, etc. Directly after that it says this punishment can be given up and upon giving up the punishment the sins are cleared. It says anything beyond the right is not just and is forbidden. I will have to go back, but when you tie that into the genera theme so far it would suggest that to give up the right causes God to love you, to enact equitable actions is your right. He will neither see good nor bad...it is just.

.

In Quraan it siad that this how it used to be in the Jewish law, it was because there was a murder issue that one Jewish tribe (Bano Quradah) resorted to Mohammed because a man from them was murdered by another man from another Jewish tribe (Bano Alnazir), so Mohammed worked by their Jewish law and judged that they either forgive, or the murderer must be killed, Bano Alnazir were angry at that and said he was unfair because they think their tribe is superior to the other tribe, maybe thinking that Mohammed is not familiar with the Jewish law.. So this verse came to him to support his decision that this is the Jewish law and apply to all Jewish no matter what their tribe is..

I didn't get the time to reas the rest of your post, I'll try to get back to it later

 

[Poki]

Cutting one hand from the left and one feet from the right is for bandits not for those who are addicted to theft, and cutting left hand for those who robed a significant amount of money, doesn't apply to hungry people stealing food, or during infertility..



In Quraan it siad that this how it used to be in the Jewish law, it was because there was a murder issue that one Jewish tribe (Bano Quradah) resorted to Mohammed because a man from them was murdered by another man from another Jewish tribe (Bano Alnazir), so Mohammed worked by their Jewish law and judged that they either forgive, or the murderer must be killed, Bano Alnazir were angry at that and said he was unfair because they think their tribe is superior to the other tribe, maybe thinking that Mohammed is not familiar with the Jewish law.. So this verse came to him to support his decision that this is the Jewish law and apply to all Jewish no matter what their tribe is..

I didn't get the time to reas the rest of your post, I'll try to get back to it later

Thanks. I was just starting to read the medina charter.

 

[Lark]

I have read that sharia law conflicts with quran, yet has been conjoined with Islam. Where does the law actually stand from pure religious standpoint?

I dont know if it conflicts with the Quran, I am no scriptural scholar or theologian, although I would say that religious law and civil law should remain separate and differentiated one from the other.

If I think of a Christian equivalent, it'd be like trying to make the Rule of Benedict enforced by the public law courts.

 

[geedoenfj]

I have also come across articles of muslims doing a comparison of sharia law with that of the quran as well as the judgements of muhammad and they do not align either. According to these people true muslims, not what the quran refers to as disbelievers turn to the quran for how to live life, not sharia law. Sharia laws pushes people to fall into the disbelievers category.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but the only way I see Mohammed actions do not align with Quraan is when it comes to punishments for personal sins, there is another essential part other than Sharia law in Islam and that is morality, if you saw someone doing a sin and there's a chance that you don't tell on them without a possible negative consequences there might be on the public rights or interests or injustice etc. like adeltury or drinking alcohol etc if you don't reveal their actions to other people, or tell only those in charge, you'll be rewarded by God and he will not reveal your sins to the public in the afterlife.. Mohmmed always tried to avoid punishments by giving the guilty ones advices to seek forgiveness and pray more, show more gratefulness to God, and they shall be forgiven.. and that they should never tell their sins to anyone, and sometimes by telling them to delay that punishment for later with a hope that this will be a chance to never comeback..
In the same time he is ready to apply laws and punishments on himself and his family, like the time when he was making the last check on the Muslims army and using his stick he aligned some of the soldiers who he thought were not standing on the line, one of them told Mohammed that by doing that he hurted him, so Mohammed apologized to that man and readily gave him the stick and revealed his stomach telling him to do the same to him as a penalty..

This actually pushes me to even further understand why some will not refer to them as radical islam, because they are not islam. They are just people of the nation they belong to who have become so disconnected from actual religion these people see them as disbelievers...aka...not muslim or islam.

I am a person of truth and if sharia law is the truth from a religious stand point you can turn to the quran and deduce the same message without knowledge of sharia. But you cant, you first have to know sharia law and from that you can cherry pick things out of context for support which our world is infamous for doing. Using current belief and turning to the bible to find something that supports it.

Correct me if i am wrong.

It is crazy how people ignore the truth and fight with pulling anything out of their ass that supports it without understanding the ramifications of doing so. That is what drives me nuts about "principle" because that word is used for defense when there is no justification based on current situation.

Radical Muslims were there in the Islamic history unfortunately, and they used to be called and still are called "Outlaws" and Mohammed warned people from them, and he was right because they were outlaws to the most important figures in Islamic history and they killed some of them, and actually said that they're (Kufar)! the prophet's friends and company and amongst the 10 who were preached by prophet to go to Heaven were told they're Kufar and not Muslims by those "Outlaws" so you can expect anything from people with this mindset..
It's always cherry picking when it comes to Islam and Middle East, always, I sometimes see Hollywood movies portraying Arabs and Muslims and I can't tell sometimes whether they're joking or something, whether I should laugh or get angry because it shows a complete ignorance, it's like they're m trying to fit millions of peoples and different cultures in just small box, or take one brush and apply it to all of them.. I wonder if this might be a painful process to dig deeper and find actual facts and know more about the culture that might not fit their ideas about these people, or would it hurt the feelings of the targeted people with a movie that disappoint them not showing Muslims in the form that they expected them to be, I don't know.. Yeah anyway

 

[Poki]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but the only way I see Mohammed actions do not align with Quraan is when it comes to punishments for personal sins, there is another essential part other than Sharia law in Islam and that is morality, if you saw someone doing a sin and there's a chance that you don't tell on them without a possible negative consequences there might be on the public rights or interests or injustice etc. like adeltury or drinking alcohol etc if you don't reveal their actions to other people, or tell only those in charge, you'll be rewarded by God and he will not reveal your sins to the public in the afterlife.. Mohmmed always tried to avoid punishments by giving the guilty ones advices to seek forgiveness and pray more, show more gratefulness to God, and they shall be forgiven.. and that they should never tell their sins to anyone, and sometimes by telling them to delay that punishment for later with a hope that this will be a chance to never comeback..
In the same time he is ready to apply laws and punishments on himself and his family, like the time when he was making the last check on the Muslims army and using his stick he aligned some of the soldiers who he thought were not standing on the line, one of them told Mohammed that by doing that he hurted him, so Mohammed apologized to that man and readily gave him the stick and revealed his stomach telling him to do the same to him as a penalty..



Radical Muslims were there in the Islamic history unfortunately, and they used to be called and still are called "Outlaws" and Mohammed warned people from them, and he was right because they were outlaws to the most important figures in Islamic history and they killed some of them, and actually said that they're (Kufar)! the prophet's friends and company and amongst the 10 who were preached by prophet to go to Heaven were told they're Kufar and not Muslims by those "Outlaws" so you can expect anything from people with this mindset..
It's always cherry picking when it comes to Islam and Middle East, always, I sometimes see Hollywood movies portraying Arabs and Muslims and I can't tell sometimes whether they're joking or something, whether I should laugh or get angry because it shows a complete ignorance, it's like they're m trying to fit millions of peoples and different cultures in just small box, or take one brush and apply it to all of them.. I wonder if this might be a painful process to dig deeper and find actual facts and know more about the culture that might not fit their ideas about these people, or would it hurt the feelings of the targeted people with a movie that disappoint them not showing Muslims in the form that they expected them to be, I don't know.. Yeah anyway

Thanks, that aligns with what i was trying to say. About 30 miles from me a group of muslims created a court system based on sharia law and claimed it as religious law. Not allowing sharia law is to go against their religion. Muslims keep bringing in sharia law into our system as claiming it as a religious right. From what i have read sharia law is no much more "religion" then american law is. Its a state based law enacted to create order through punishment.

Because of this we have states that are putting in place laws that state religous laws are not allowed in our court system. I am for and against this. But my for and against has nothing to do with sharia, its actually ANY religious law. Like how we just made gay marriage legal. Not allowing it is a religous law. Which is funny as hell in my opinion and shows the stupidity of people who are guided by blindness and ignorance. Making it easier to actually push christianity out of our system as well while they are trying to bring it in.

I swear the quraan teaches everything i see with me own eyes. The stupidity, the hate, the punishments...aka...what some call karma.

I have a question. The charter of medina or whateverits called, i have heard many names for it. Is very short, a couple paragraphs. Is that the whole thing from muhammed. I am about to dig into the Sharia law more in depth in the next couple days.

To answer yours, movies are hit or miss. They love to play with stereotypes. I dont think that the people of our country take movies seriously. Alot of it is based on reality as well. For example the outlaws will refer to themselves as muslim so a movie will portray that aspect. Everyone i know takes movies with a grain of salt. Our image of muslim is created by the war torn nations and "news" that reports the bad and not the good. We live in ignorance of Islam and Muslim and we are driven by what we see as how define Islam and Muslim. Kinda like the thought process, majority cant be wrong. But we are skewed by the negative due to news, not the positive. It would be more beneficial for muslims to work towards the skewed perception from what we see in real life then from movies.

I loved the fact that in this orlando shooting it was made aware that muslims were among the many who gave blood and helped.

One clarification about my post, not for you, but everyone that read. When i say we need to spread the belief i do not mean convert to muslim...i mean spread the belief as in knowledge and understanding of what it actually is and stands for. I think one major flaw of religion is that we push worship above and beyond the word we need to spread. Irregardless of God, both christianity and muslim believe in forgiveness, mercy, love, kindness, compassion, etc. We get stuck on "who" God is and lose so much of the words that matter. We cant unite under truth, but segregate over differences.

The outlaws is what we see the most and they guide what we believe Islam and Muslim to be. They live by what they claim as Sharia law. The beheadings, the killings, the war, the hate, etc.

The quraan mentions that one punishment of the disbelievers and ignorance is great humility. We will humiliate ourselves and i would venture to say that most punishments of the quraan is living life itself because our mindset causes us our own issues. Like being humiliated, spewing hate out of ignorance. Alot of this stuff we learn and get past as we become knowledgable and more mature. We then have to live with our past.

I know a man who had major issues with drugs and violence and lead a horrible life, i think he had killed others. He woke up one day and devoyed his life to the church to make up for his sins. Its wasnt driven by anything other then his disgust of himself. That change surrounded him with happiness, acceptance, love, it changed his whole outlook and who he was. He became a child of God and he was working to undo his sins and show he is a new man. Someone asked me, and i said that i hold him accountable for his whole life and his sins cant be forgiven by me, but i also said, its not my duty to judge him. I will treat him based on how he acts today and his recent past and any forgiveness is at the hands of God, not me. That is not my place to decide. I believe that is what our current system of jail/prison pushes and what going to sharia law will cut short personally. Granted we have a huge issue with space in jail and prison. But its a price we pay to stay on a path of giving chances.

Thanks for the explanation and part on morality, that is a huge area that we are blind to as you said its not known. We have a system based on transparency...everything is known. Its the opposite and has been put in place due to corruption as a checks and balance system. We can no longer trust so we must push transparency. It works half ass though, there has to be a better system that actually gets people we trust into office. I am curious if this is what drives our fear above and beyond whats warranted....because as a country we believe in everyone is tried equally and no one should be treated differently. We will cry foul at the drop of a hat because so and so didnt recieve the exact same punishment as if they walked the exact same path in life. Its a beating to deal with these people. All the explanations, the reasoning, blah, blah, blah. It all revolves around lack of trust and percieved fairness. I am gonna have to put some thought behind that morality code as you explained it, i believe its a huge part of the system and is actually the part that aligns with the quraan and the teachings of Islam.

What i get out of your mohammed example is that you always err on the side of how do we get this person to do right...not on the side of how do i punish this person. Sometimes you have to fall on the side of punishment, but you need to be fair and equitable. God will accept fair and equitable, but he loves those who can get people to do right and avoid punishment.

What is your opinion on Sharia law itself as fair and equitable? How often are the stricter punishments actually implemented? For example amputations or death?

 

[geedoenfj]

There's important thing I feel the need to add, whoever speaks on a sin that someone did that implies a punishment without concrete evidence set by Sharia should submit to a proper punishment by the judge, even if he/she are trustworthy and never tell a lie in their life, this would fall into the category of rumors and ruining others reputation which is highly condemned by Sharia

 

[Poki]

There's important thing I feel the need to add, whoever speaks on a sin that someone did that implies a punishment without concrete evidence set by Sharia should submit to a proper punishment by the judge, even if he/she are trustworthy and never tell a lie in their life, this would fall into the category of rumors and ruining others reputation which is highly condemned by Sharia

What is the punishment for rumors and ruining others reputation?

 

[geedoenfj]

What is the punishment for rumors and ruining others reputation?

I don't have enough information regarding this tbh, I know that for example if it's regarding any allegations or accuseations of adultery nature, because you can't simply say that someone committed adultery, neither to the public nor to the authorities, there are very strict terms on how you should report it, and if you fail to meet only one of these terms, it will be considered gossiping and unnecessary aggressiveness and imply punishment..
Also regarding speaking bad about women, I think it's in many cultures when someone curses, it's always women involved (son of b****, mother f**** etc.) and it's strongly condemned to indulge women like mother and sister and wife in such nonsense, and also many people wanting to hurt women by talking about her like oh she's bluh bluh bluh.. It can be lashings (usually number of lashings) maybe recompensations in other cases.. I'm not really sure of the exact punishment..
Anything regarding these laws is only scholars speciality, because each case is different and imply different approach to deal with, not only in this case but all other cases..
Only scholars liscenced in Islamic Sharia are allowed to talk further about these judgements, I don't want to take the radical Islamists aproach and talk about laws from my own understanding while I'm ignorant about the principles of the laws, I won't take that risk, I might be wrong..
I will get back later to your previous post ^_^

 

[geedoenfj]

I have a question. The charter of medina or whateverits called, i have heard many names for it. Is very short, a couple paragraphs. Is that the whole thing from muhammed. I am about to dig into the Sharia law more in depth in the next couple days.

It was his idea essentially, he put the general principles, he run the discussion with the representatives of all sects and tribes in Al Madina and also the immigrants, until they finally all got to that agreement and signed up for it ..
Likewise, when Muslims go or live in a country where there's majority of non Muslims, they should submit to the terms and conditions of that that country or else go to a place where they like there rules better, any breaking of these rules is considered betrayal and is forbidden by Sharia, and the punishment stated by that country for such an action should apply to whoever break the rules..

But we are skewed by the negative due to news, not the positive. It would be more beneficial for muslims to work towards the skewed perception from what we see in real life then from movies.

Strongly agree!! There's a lot of work to be done.. I know like the Fox News and maybe others, I always say that some people keep giving them materials to work on, and people being under the fear factor not knowing from where the danger might be coming to them would make them believe and accept anything, sometimes I think ISIS is stirring up this hatefulness on purpose as a part of their plan that Muslims would be banned from Western countries then eventually sometime in the future when they will be able to establish their state, they would leave Muslims without any choice but to join the gang..
*sigh* I wish sometimes that me and my family would immigrate to some small island so that we escape all of that madness, because the situation is only getting worse and most of us are worried of what future might be bringing ..
Well I avoid listening to news lately, I mean I would only be sad and pissed off and cannot do anything about it, I'm sick of people getting killed, I'm sick of blood shedding, I don't want my eyes to be used to these views, and for what??? Seriously!!
All that I'm thinking of is the safety of people, I started viewing political discussion as a luxury while there are human tragedies going on..

I loved the fact that in this orlando shooting it was made aware that muslims were among the many who gave blood and helped.

Wow I didn't know that! I love that too! There's a verse in Quraan that says:

"Whosoever kills an innocent human being, it shall be as if he has killed all mankind, and whosoever saves the life of a human being, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind " Alma'eda Chapter; V No.32

The quraan mentions that one punishment of the disbelievers and ignorance is great humility. We will humiliate ourselves and i would venture to say that most punishments of the quraan is living life itself because our mindset causes us our own issues. Like being humiliated, spewing hate out of ignorance. Alot of this stuff we learn and get past as we become knowledgable and more mature. We then have to live with our past.

I know a man who had major issues with drugs and violence and lead a horrible life, i think he had killed others. He woke up one day and devoyed his life to the church to make up for his sins. Its wasnt driven by anything other then his disgust of himself. That change surrounded him with happiness, acceptance, love, it changed his whole outlook and who he was. He became a child of God and he was working to undo his sins and show he is a new man. Someone asked me, and i said that i hold him accountable for his whole life and his sins cant be forgiven by me, but i also said, its not my duty to judge him. I will treat him based on how he acts today and his recent past and any forgiveness is at the hands of God, not me. That is not my place to decide. I believe that is what our current system of jail/prison pushes and what going to sharia law will cut short personally. Granted we have a huge issue with space in jail and prison. But its a price we pay to stay on a path of giving chances.

Agree

The outlaws is what we see the most and they guide what we believe Islam and Muslim to be. They live by what they claim as Sharia law. The beheadings, the killings, the war, the hate, etc.

Thanks for the explanation and part on morality, that is a huge area that we are blind to as you said its not known. We have a system based on transparency...everything is known. Its the opposite and has been put in place due to corruption as a checks and balance system. We can no longer trust so we must push transparency. It works half ass though, there has to be a better system that actually gets people we trust into office. I am curious if this is what drives our fear above and beyond whats warranted....because as a country we believe in everyone is tried equally and no one should be treated differently. We will cry foul at the drop of a hat because so and so didnt recieve the exact same punishment as if they walked the exact same path in life. Its a beating to deal with these people. All the explanations, the reasoning, blah, blah, blah. It all revolves around lack of trust and percieved fairness. I am gonna have to put some thought behind that morality code as you explained it, i believe its a huge part of the system and is actually the part that aligns with the quraan and the teachings of Islam.

Well there's a little other thing we are missing.. a considerable number of ISIS members are from Muslims in Europe, I read somewhere that they're estimated to be 6000 from Europe alone while the rest other 5000 are from the rest of Islamic countries that have 1 billion something Muslims.. although I believe statistics can be manipulated to some extent, but IF it is true.. isn't that something that we need to take notice on? They were raised in Europe, in most developed and civilzed countries in the world what happened?! Why don't they feel belonging to those countries?? Why are they more willing to accept those ideologies than some of people in my region who might have a much stronger motive of getting revenge because of how USA and some Western countries handled some issues in the Middle East.. I mean we have a whole new generation of youths whom were once children of war..
Whatever the reasons are, the Western culture of freedom which I have noticed here in the forum for example (since I never been in a Western country before) can back fire in some cases, the idea that everyone can interpret anything by their own understanding and perception and create their own vision because nothing seem to be for sure, is opening the space for those who never studied Sharia properly to choose what they believe without a basic knowledge on purposes, approaches of making the law etc. and without feeling the need to get back to Sharia scholars for clarification, and of course they get inspired by some of extreme schools that belongs to authorities and governments in few Islamic countries..
Speciality should be respected, Muslims are warned to never give Fatwas unless they're liscenced of doing so, and whoever gives Fatwas and estimates laws will either be rewarded by God if they were correct and for good, or incur the consequence and punishment of all the damages their Fatwa caused in the after life, so it's not easy, it's a huge responsibility..
And of course another point we really need to work on is spirituality and moral code rather than only set of laws and rules, rules are to do with knowledge of our rights and duties, moral code is the core and soul of the relegion, the whole point of it..

What i get out of your mohammed example is that you always err on the side of how do we get this person to do right...not on the side of how do i punish this person. Sometimes you have to fall on the side of punishment, but you need to be fair and equitable. God will accept fair and equitable, but he loves those who can get people to do right and avoid punishment.

He usually doesn't tolerate betrayal, threatening of life, properties, safety, racism etc.. Generally anything people related, not only Muslims but anyone lives under his authority..and there are many incidents showed that clearly..
And his companions showed that too, and I will mention an incident in time of Omar bin Alkhattab, second most important figure in Islamic history, one day an Egyption Christian young man came to him complaining about the son of Amr bin Alas (the ruler of Egypt at that time) who was his friend, and one day they were racing on horses, and the Egyption man won the race, so the son of Amr got angry at him and beated him up with a stick saying "take that! and I am of a son of majestic ancestors!" Omar bin Alkhattab got so angry when he heard that and sent for Amr and his son to come to Almadina ASAP, and when they came he looked at the son of Amr and told him: "So, you beated him up telling him you're a son of majestic ancestors huh?!" He didn't reply, so Omar gave the stick to the Egyption man and told him: "Here! take the stick and beat the son of a majestic ancestors up" then looked at Amr and said his very famous statement:
"Oh Amr.. When did you start enslaving people when their mothers gave birth to them as freewill humans"

What is your opinion on Sharia law itself as fair and equitable? How often are the stricter punishments actually implemented? For example amputations or death?

I believe Sharia is fair and equitable when applied properly, although many laws can be disabled according to time and place specially if people don't see it's appliable because people's opinions are highly valued, Mohammed used to always ask people for suggestions before taking steps and decisions..
Although there are harsh punishments but the application of them is almost impossible, because it puts very strict terms and conditions on how to prove that action, which makes the punishment is for public revelation of the action rather than the action itself, and also we're supposed to not spill others' secrets, it's a sin..
Actually most Islamic countries do not apply the amputation, we have high levels of poverty and unemployment and very unstable political situations, we're supposed to help people improve their lives not amputate their hands, however, if the country lives in a stability and has no poverty, cutting hands is to actually make people not thinking of stealing on the first place, just by picturing the horrifying idea of hands off will keep this whole idea away from their heads, so we can say it's ligeslated to not be applied, for the theft to not happen in the first place..
As for death penalty, in case of murders, there are three options: the family of the murdered can either forgive, or the killer pay an amount of money that the family of the murdered person determine as a penalty, or the killer must be executed..
And I think some Sharia laws can be a better substitute to a prison, because in prison you only surround criminals with more dangerous companions and there will be less chance for them to grow and be better people, prison may create a community of criminals which contradicts with the whole purpose of punishment..