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  1. #11
    However You Project Me
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudpatrol View Post
    @Virtual ghost @Forever

    I'm always surprised by blowback to these kinds of things. Modern society is so focused on comfort and things being easy.

    Lots of things that are worthy in life take huge amounts of effort. It's easier to eat chocolate cake and sleep in than it is to have moderation and wake up early to work out? But, the benefits can be worth the sacrifice.

    Yeah, it's easy to be frustrated, judging, self-righteous, to not hold one's tongue...but is it THAT difficult to take a breath and be mindfully reasonable?

    It is impossible to keep such lists perfectly but I wonder what things would look like - if more people aspired to integrate such things - more fully into their person?
    Although not an example of it, I think I did have those moments when I really wanted to change and do everything better in my life, I've felt genuinely happy and fulfilled although the reason why I kept not so good at that is because I am sensitive to criticism or people's envy, that their emotions pull me down for some masochistic empathy like I want to suck so I can make them feel better. It's really irrational.

    As people say you're your own worst enemy.

    Today I was getting a ride to go pick my recently fixed car and the driver was so passive and even though he technically didn't complain I felt anger and disappointment in him and even a little spite because I want to become a doctor he never left the city he grew up and went to college in. I think that's rather miserable and I think he knew it but I tried giving him some sympathy in any way I could but he still was in the dumps. Oh well.
    Maybe we can save the world
    From every evil boy and dangerous girl
    Please make me believe in harmony
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  2. #12
    Senior(ita) Member Cloudpatrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever View Post
    Although not an example of it, I think I did have those moments when I really wanted to change and do everything better in my life, I've felt genuinely happy and fulfilled although the reason why I kept not so good at that is because I am sensitive to criticism or people's envy, that their emotions pull me down for some masochistic empathy like I want to suck so I can make them feel better. It's really irrational.

    As people say you're your own worst enemy.

    Today I was getting a ride to go pick my recently fixed car and the driver was so passive and even though he technically didn't complain I felt anger and disappointment in him and even a little spite because I want to become a doctor he never left the city he grew up and went to college in. I think that's rather miserable and I think he knew it but I tried giving him some sympathy in any way I could but he still was in the dumps. Oh well.
    I love your honesty my Friend. I want to continue our vent conversation at some time... After we talked, more questions occurred to me

    I fail at things like this also. I just strongly believe it's worth trying.

    I SO get the envy thing. I've been having deep conversations with someone who is trying to convince me of something that I refuse to be enticed into. But, the good thing is that it's helping me understand some aspects of myself better:

    Like, realizing that I sometimes 'hide my light' so that other's won't be envious. ie. I skipped a grade in school and the kids in my old class were resentful and the kids in my new class were not accepting. So, I worked overtime to win everyone over again. Effective, but also harmful. Now I just have to excise those aspects and not be afraid to be 100% forthright in my personal presentation.

    We can both learn to rock who we are ALL the WAY and 'F%$& the haters'
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
    I disagree, aswel as other Christians. Are you going to steal the name ten commandments? Why not 9 or 11. Haha, thats when the twin towers fell.

    Theres a guy here who created a new martial art, he called it HAVA. He has a black belt in jiu-jutsu. I told him you can't just create new systems, don't you have trust in the old masters? Likewise you, i am sure you can find all good stuff in religion generally (i'm muslim). Pay homaga and give honor where it belongs.

    People just have no respect.
    I bet you dont like porn parodies either
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #14
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudpatrol View Post
    @Virtual ghost @Forever

    I'm always surprised by blowback to these kinds of things. Modern society is so focused on comfort and things being easy.

    Lots of things that are worthy in life take huge amounts of effort. It's easier to eat chocolate cake and sleep in than it is to have moderation and wake up early to work out? But, the benefits can be worth the sacrifice.

    Yeah, it's easy to be frustrated, judging, self-righteous, to not hold one's tongue...but is it THAT difficult to take a breath and be mindfully reasonable?

    It is impossible to keep such lists perfectly but I wonder what things would look like - if more people aspired to integrate such things - more fully into their person?


    As I said a few times on the forum "I don't believe in rising hell for the sake of rising hell". However that list strikes me as unrealistic, not so much because of kindness part but becuause to me this looks as system that ignores problems for the sake of harmony. What is a social dynamic that I watch every day for decades and I trully think/believe that sometimes someone has to "clean the dance floor" for everybodies sake. Also I make a distinct difference between proving that someone is simply wrong and exploding into their face ... and I clearly tend to prefer first scenario. However those ideas in the OP simply create practical problems in real life and in my opinion harmony part should be lowered / rejected if situation trully requires this.

  5. #15
    Senior(ita) Member Cloudpatrol's Avatar
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    @Virtual ghost
    As I said a few times on the forum "I don't believe in rising hell for the sake of rising hell". However that list strikes me as unrealistic, not so much because of kindness part but becuause to me this looks as system that ignores problems for the sake of harmony. What is a social dynamic that I watch every day for decades and I trully think/believe that sometimes someone has to "clean the dance floor" for everybodies sake. Also I make a distinct difference between proving that someone is simply wrong and exploding into their face ... and I clearly tend to prefer first scenario. However those ideas in the OP simply create practical problems in real life and in my opinion harmony part should be lowered / rejected if situation trully requires this.
    And, I don't believe in shoving problems under the rug.

    So, perhaps we agree on some level.

    TRUE harmony isn't attained if: in the pursuit of it > realistic issues are overlooked or other's are devalued.

    I think there was a certain 'overstated' element to the way they were written. But, merit is still found within.

    i.e. These 3 steps:

    3. The good person is loyal in relationships not because they think their lover is perfect, but because they know that everyone is pretty imperfect and rather hard to live with at close range. They accept that the only people we can ever think of as normal or easy are people we don’t yet know very well.

    4. The good person knows that it is impossible to be wholly understood by anyone and accepts that things are going well if one is very lonely in around only half of the key areas of one’s life.

    5. The good person tries hard never to assume that other people should know what they are thinking of without having been told. They try to resist sulking (behaviour that stems from an incensed belief that others should know why we are upset without us having informed them) – and are committed to teaching others about the contents of their minds.
    #3 to be loyal is beyond value. IF things are WORTHY of loyalty. Allowing for other's imperfections does help ease relationships. If that imperfection is someone has a tendency towards grumpiness when tired? Yes, worthy of an occasional pass. If the imperfection is that they hit their partner when frustrated? No. Not to be overlooked.

    It's reasonable thinking applied to the skeleton of the principles, right?

    On the other hand, this:

    6. The good person looks at people who are behaving badly as if they might be small children; that is with patience, charity and an active search for mitigating circumstances. Though our societies stress the insult of being treated as younger than one is, the good person knows it is the greatest privilege for anyone to look beyond the apparently strong yet nasty adult to the worried, anxious and really rather nice child within.
    This could very easily be used as justification for bad behaviour. I HAVE benefitted from reminding myself to treat immature adults proportionate to the child-like emotional maturity they possess. But, to excuse consistent, unacceptable behaviour because of choosing to view someone as a child? No.

    These are guidelines and it is up to us to decide where and when they are appropriate. Like when I read the manual for a new appliance. It has numerous warnings, some of which are ridiculous. It's up to me to decide which ones are legit and should be heeded. Same with this, where can they fit well into our individual lives WITHOUT sacrificing the integrity of life that you speak to.
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  6. #16
    Digital ambition Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudpatrol View Post
    @Virtual ghost

    And, I don't believe in shoving problems under the rug.

    So, perhaps we agree on some level.

    TRUE harmony isn't attained if: in the pursuit of it > realistic issues are overlooked or other's are devalued.

    I think there was a certain 'overstated' element to the way they were written. But, merit is still found within.


    From my point of view the problem is abstract nature of those new commandments. This all works nicely in theory but reality is something else.
    In 21th century we don't have unlimited resources but increasing population, we have totalitarian governments in economic and militaristic expanssion, we have radical groups that wouldn't reconsider anything until they suffer heavy losses, we have sociopaths that win elections ... etc. I believe in being nobile but I also know that with strict approach as described in those commandments we will probably not get far. Or we will be responsible for big mess since out approach was out of touch with reality.

  7. #17
    Senior(ita) Member Cloudpatrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    From my point of view the problem is abstract nature of those new commandments. This all works nicely in theory but reality is something else.
    In 21th century we don't have unlimited resources but increasing population, we have totalitarian governments in economic and militaristic expanssion, we have radical groups that wouldn't reconsider anything until they suffer heavy losses, we have sociopaths that win elections ... etc. I believe in being nobile but I also know that with strict approach as described in those commandments we will probably not get far. Or we will be responsible for big mess since out approach was out of touch with reality.
    I understand what you are saying. And, it’s true that when we set a bar low, it is easier to be pleasantly surprised.

    Still…



    When looking objectively at the world and the state it’s in, it IS easy to be cynical and guarded. That’s 1 perspective. While not being able to control objective truths and reality, we are able to control our interpretations. Why choose a negative outlook or code of conduct when there are SO many other intriguing and more positive ways of being? Those '10 principles' are OUTLINES, not strict commandments and can even be taken and interpreted fluidly/personally.

    I know that were you live is different from where I live. But, I have talked to people who were interned in concentration camps and experienced/saw horrifying atrocities of life, in a setting devoid of any positive reality. The social structures existing when they were released - were hugely challenging.

    These survivors felt that - ALL THE MORE SO - in such devastation, a positive human outlook and code of conduct was essential. That they were alive because of it.

    Awareness of harsh truths does not always require harshness in return.

    “The negative is always the easy side to stand on, since it demands nothing from us.”

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