Bad faith - Good faith

[Mustafa]

Islam teaches submission to Gods will, so it starts as bad faith, as a philosopher called it. Children are under bad faith, since their parents control their life. Being controlled by someone else is bad faith, even if because of fear.

Then it gets better for the muslim, when he grows, like my mother says habit that turns to worship. 5 times prayer. Which is HARD. But completely logical. Even Buddhists don't devote half an hour everday to emptiness. But that is a good habit, skillfull habit.

A muslim is hence completely realistic, and intelligently navigates. He is truly awakened by his own merits. But i am weak and don't give Allah and the Prophet their due

 

[Zangetshumody]

I don't follow your reasoning around the topic of the "good habit". Why is the habit good, how does a habit turn into real worship? And how does the force from a "good habit" overturn the 'controlled' kind of unreal faith?

I can see how consistently practicing the submission of your own-will, can give you a better reference system about how to think about all the things in life, because of having yourself generally trained to "let go" of all your personal thoughts so often, you are able to see the outcomes from thinking that is left uncompleted and the thinking which is made useful for real living. Measuring the consequences of mental life is a good grounding and resource for the practice of spiritual life: but the same lesson can be developed in the mind's own spiritual discerning, and although it can be obtained by training, it can also be developed by the free choice that exists on the present intelligence that pervades over the entire mind.

 

[Mustafa]

I don't follow your reasoning around the topic of the "good habit". Why is the habit good, how does a habit turn into real worship? And how does the force from a "good habit" overturn the 'controlled' kind of unreal faith?

I can see how consistently practicing the submission of your own-will, can give you a better reference system about how to think about all the things in life, because of having yourself generally trained to "let go" of all your personal thoughts so often, you are able to see the outcomes from thinking that is left uncompleted and the thinking which is made useful for real living. Measuring the consequences of mental life is a good grounding and resource for the practice of spiritual life: but the same lesson can be developed in the mind's own spiritual discerning, and although it can be obtained by training, it can also be developed by the free choice that exists on the present intelligence that pervades over the entire mind.

The good habit. ... You singeled out the terrm the good habit. Good means skilled. Good is Mercy and skilled is Justice/Truth, two sides of life. Like [MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION] said about the Christian faith. I dont mean to bother you BTW small wonder. .... So it is good (mercy) because it is skilled (communion with the real). Streching yourself to reach 'equilibrium' (scientific term) which means 'equanimity' (moral term) and reach perfection, that muslims does TO AN EXTENT and they may even cooperate about that as within a family, or army. Christians have the grace of not aiming for perfeciton through Jesus peace be upon him. ANd there is i believe is where you said that the "mind" can reach spirituality through 'free choise'. But I never said muslims don't have free choise. If fact, what you call unreal faith, is CALLED bad faith and doesnt mean that you are not believer then, it is just called so. Google "bad faith wiki" if you want, I dont remember who invented this term. And muslims are turn skillful habit which is bad faith when they are young to good faith when they are old, because they learn it and incorporate it in their life. They reach communion with God and that means that you become one with God or together with God, you accept your place. Muslims cant become one with God.

Peace!