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Too many idealists

Lark

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Joined
Jun 21, 2009
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29,569
This entire thread is flawed since you can be idealist and realist at the same time. Realist in understanding current situation and how environment works while setting noble goals for the future is possibly the best cognitive combination you can have.

It depends what way you're using the words, yes.

The idealism to realism continuity is perhaps a thing, I dont think its a matter of semantics to say that perfectionism vs pragmatism could be a better continuity.

Myself, my contribution was merely highlighting another sense in which the word is used, ie philosophical idealism vs philosophical materialism/skepticism (did use marxism, which is a bit of a temptation I'm given to but its not necessarily restricted to those ideas).
 

Lark

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Jun 21, 2009
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29,569
Maybe... perhaps even the concept of different social classes was also created by us :shrug: because some idiot or another thousand decided that they were better than others, the whole hierarchy was constructed to reinforce this originating thought.

I think that if all (or at least a majority) of us can see right through it all and call bullshit on the class divisions, then we can overturn it and create a better history for future generations to come.

Well, what you're describing is a philosophical idealist's conception of social class, of anything really, it all goes back to Bishop Berkley's idea that everything is a figment of the imagination or product of the mind.

Marx is only one materialist, there's also other sorts of skepticism which are materialist too, probably the greatest challenger to Marx, which I think wasnt talking nonsense was Max Weber, who argued for culture, or rather religion and ideology, having a role other than reflection of ruling class interests, the development of the means and mode of production in any epoch etc.

The truth or reality is liable to be some complex integrative theory which combines the best of Marx, others of his ilk, and other sociologists like Max Weber.

Just in relation of class divisions, I dont think its possible to eradicate them entirely, though there are marked differences between how they manifest one society to another, and those that are not marked by class struggles, have some sort of transcendent or emergent harmony or consensus instead, are more prosperous.
 

Caribelle

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Joined
Oct 16, 2018
Messages
57
I think idealism is good for visionary and 'out of the box' thinking. Seeing beyond 'what is' to 'what could be'. I'm sure many idealists have been at the forefront of social change through the years.
And realists are good for being practical and tackling the day to day challenges of life. Sometimes idealists think so much about ideas that they neglect daily happenings and tasks. Too much of that wouldn't be good.
 

Tomb1

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Jun 15, 2011
Messages
994
This entire thread is flawed since you can be idealist and realist at the same time. Realist in understanding current situation and how environment works while setting noble goals for the future is possibly the best cognitive combination you can have.

Your entire post is flawed since you cannot be both an idealist and realist at the same time.
 

Vendrah

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Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
1,947
MBTI Type
NP
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952
Your entire post is flawed since you cannot be both an idealist and realist at the same time.

It depends on what you understand as idealist and realist.
Im with [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION] on this one, as I understand it, there is nothing stopping you at being idealist and realist.
Inside MBTI, understanding idealist as NFs and realist as any Sensors, then your answer is correct. However even inside MBTI, if we interpret idealists as "Fi" or FPs, than ISFPs and ESFPs are realists and idealists at the same time.
 
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