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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    This entire thread is flawed since you can be idealist and realist at the same time. Realist in understanding current situation and how environment works while setting noble goals for the future is possibly the best cognitive combination you can have.
    It depends what way you're using the words, yes.

    The idealism to realism continuity is perhaps a thing, I dont think its a matter of semantics to say that perfectionism vs pragmatism could be a better continuity.

    Myself, my contribution was merely highlighting another sense in which the word is used, ie philosophical idealism vs philosophical materialism/skepticism (did use marxism, which is a bit of a temptation I'm given to but its not necessarily restricted to those ideas).

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maya Dawn View Post
    Maybe... perhaps even the concept of different social classes was also created by us because some idiot or another thousand decided that they were better than others, the whole hierarchy was constructed to reinforce this originating thought.

    I think that if all (or at least a majority) of us can see right through it all and call bullshit on the class divisions, then we can overturn it and create a better history for future generations to come.
    Well, what you're describing is a philosophical idealist's conception of social class, of anything really, it all goes back to Bishop Berkley's idea that everything is a figment of the imagination or product of the mind.

    Marx is only one materialist, there's also other sorts of skepticism which are materialist too, probably the greatest challenger to Marx, which I think wasnt talking nonsense was Max Weber, who argued for culture, or rather religion and ideology, having a role other than reflection of ruling class interests, the development of the means and mode of production in any epoch etc.

    The truth or reality is liable to be some complex integrative theory which combines the best of Marx, others of his ilk, and other sociologists like Max Weber.

    Just in relation of class divisions, I dont think its possible to eradicate them entirely, though there are marked differences between how they manifest one society to another, and those that are not marked by class struggles, have some sort of transcendent or emergent harmony or consensus instead, are more prosperous.
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  3. #63

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    I think idealism is good for visionary and 'out of the box' thinking. Seeing beyond 'what is' to 'what could be'. I'm sure many idealists have been at the forefront of social change through the years.
    And realists are good for being practical and tackling the day to day challenges of life. Sometimes idealists think so much about ideas that they neglect daily happenings and tasks. Too much of that wouldn't be good.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    This entire thread is flawed since you can be idealist and realist at the same time. Realist in understanding current situation and how environment works while setting noble goals for the future is possibly the best cognitive combination you can have.
    Your entire post is flawed since you cannot be both an idealist and realist at the same time.
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  5. #65
    Complex paradigm Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomb1 View Post
    Your entire post is flawed since you cannot be both an idealist and realist at the same time.

    If there is only one sphere of interest then perhaps this would be true, but that evidently isn't the case with reality.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomb1 View Post
    Your entire post is flawed since you cannot be both an idealist and realist at the same time.
    They are called materialists, dialectical materialists

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomb1 View Post
    Your entire post is flawed since you cannot be both an idealist and realist at the same time.
    It depends on what you understand as idealist and realist.
    Im with @Virtual ghost on this one, as I understand it, there is nothing stopping you at being idealist and realist.
    Inside MBTI, understanding idealist as NFs and realist as any Sensors, then your answer is correct. However even inside MBTI, if we interpret idealists as "Fi" or FPs, than ISFPs and ESFPs are realists and idealists at the same time.
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