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Why everyone should embrace hedonism.

ajblaise

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Psychologically, our behavior is motivated by our desire to experience pleasure and avoid experiencing pain.

Technically, we are all already hedonists, but not everyone embraces it ethically. Religion can make people feel guilty about certain things that are very pleasurable to them. Societal mores, taboos, and laws also can prevent people from being the best hedonist they can be. (However of course laws and taboos should stay intact regarding things like murder, rape..etc).

If everyone looked at what is really pleasurable and what causes pain in their lives, and changed according to what they've found, people would be happier.

Short and Long term pleasure/pain has to be looked at too. A good hedonist will probably not get addicted to heroin because they know while it will cause short-term pleasure, it will probably cause long-term pain.


What do you all think about this issue?
 

Jack Flak

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Everybody's everything already. Character is a question of preference and degree.

SILLY THREAD ALERT!
 

disregard

mrs
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Going by wikipedia's definition, which is:

"Hedonism is the philosophy that pleasure is of ultimate importance, the most important pursuit,"

I would say that we are all hedonists.. The ascetic is a hedonist in that he derives pleasure (albeit "spiritual" or "enlightened") from that abstinence. The hard-worker is a hedonist, as the peace of mind that comes with financial security is pleasurable. I would like to see an argument that says we are all not hedonists..

Now.. that is with the definition I have cited...

If there is another definition.. perhaps more specific.. then lay it on me.
 

ajblaise

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Everybody's everything already. Character is a question of preference and degree.

SILLY THREAD ALERT!

What do you mean by everybody's everything already? Most or at least many people, through their actions, don't embrace hedonism.
 

ajblaise

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I would say that we are all hedonists.. The ascetic is a hedonist in that he derives pleasure (albeit "spiritual" or "enlightened") from that abstinence. The hard-worker is a hedonist, as the peace of mind that comes with financial security is pleasurable. I would like to see an argument that says we are all not hedonists..

Technically I believe we are, but if we look at 'ethical hedonism' in particular, many people don't have that view at all.
 

disregard

mrs
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Ahh...

Psychological hedonism is the view that humans are psychologically constructed in such a way that we exclusively desire pleasure.

Ethical hedonism is the view that our fundamental moral obligation is to maximize pleasure or happiness.

I will make a post on this.

Great topic!
 

Jack Flak

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What do you mean by everybody's everything already? Most or at least many people, through their actions, don't embrace hedonism.
We still have our reptilian brain parts, and all lust from time to time.
 

murkrow

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How can anyone possibly do anything which isn't hedonistic?

They must derive some pleasure from their chastity.
 

disregard

mrs
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"No, not a commonplace! Hitherto, for instance, if I were told ‘love thy neighbour,’ what came of it?” Pyotr Petrovitch went on, perhaps with excessive haste. “It came to my tearing my coat in half to share with my neighbour and we both were left half naked. As a Russian proverb has it, ‘catch several hares and you won’t catch one.’ Science now tells us, love yourself before all men, for everything in the world rests on self-interest. You love yourself and manage your own affairs properly and your coat remains whole. Economic truth adds that the better private affairs are organised in society—the more whole coats, so to say—the firmer are its foundations and the better is the common welfare organised too. Therefore, in acquiring wealth solely and exclusively for myself, I am acquiring so to speak, for all, and helping to bring to pass my neighbour’s getting a little more than a torn coat; and that not from private, personal liberality, but as a consequence of the general advance. The idea is simple, but unhappily it has been a long time reaching us, being hindered by idealism and sentimentality. And yet it would seem to want very little wit to perceive it …”
--Dostoevsky, Crime and Punishment

I agree with this (taking care of your own needs and wants) so long as it does not directly infringe upon the rights and happiness of others.

I am curious as to what the popular arguments against ethical hedonism are? I haven't been in a philosophy class for years.
 

ajblaise

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How can anyone possibly do anything which isn't hedonistic?

They must derive some pleasure from their chastity.

They derive some pleasure from chastity, but it was social or religious norms that most likely caused him/her to make that choice, if the norms weren't in place, they might just derive more pleasure from getting laid.

A more extreme example of religion effecting someone's hedonism would be a homosexual killing him/herself for being an abomination. They obviously derived much pain from their religious beliefs.
 

Simplexity

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What about putting a dog down?

Seeing someone you know and love being put off to jail?

do we not willingly do those things. Do we get some pleasure out of it?
I certainly wouldn't, heck I rationalize feelings all the time and feel terrible as i'm doing it.
 

murkrow

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How about the pleasure and satisfaction he felt in death for sacrificing his evil and selfish intentions to the will of God?

You're weighing physical pain and pleasure very heavily.
 

ajblaise

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What about putting a dog down?

Seeing someone you know and love being put off to jail?

do we not willingly do those things. Do we get some pleasure out of it?
I certainly wouldn't, heck I rationalize feelings all the time and feel terrible as i'm doing it.

It's not just about deriving pleasure, but avoiding pain. Perhaps someone seeing their dog suffer causes them more pain than putting it down.
 

disregard

mrs
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Seeing someone you know and love go to jail is out of your control, so it cannot be classified as an act of self-interest.

As for putting the dog down.. it is for pleasure, because you would prefer not to experience the pain of watching your dog be in pain.
 

ajblaise

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How about the pleasure and satisfaction he felt in death for sacrificing his evil and selfish intentions to the will of God?

You're weighing physical pain and pleasure very heavily.

Did he feel pleasure, or was he more trying to avoid and escape his pain?
 

murkrow

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What about putting a dog down?

Seeing someone you know and love being put off to jail?

do we not willingly do those things. Do we get some pleasure out of it?
I certainly wouldn't, heck I rationalize feelings all the time and feel terrible as i'm doing it.

There is a bitter satisfaction that comes from acting stoically.

Your weighing of physical pleasure and euphoria above the sensation of duty fulfilled is just as culturally based as the religious glorification of chastity.
 

ajblaise

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Also it's possible he felt some pleasure in his supplicant approaching of divinity.

Sure there might have been some pleasure he experienced surrounding his suicide, but it would probably be out weighed by the pain he felt, which caused his suicide in the first place. And this would be thanks to religion, which can prevent people from realizing their hedonistic potential.
 

Simplexity

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I think it depends somewhat on your judgment on long and short term issues. Maybe your angry and want to create conflict, maybe your a dick and do things not to please you but to release pent up feelings. It doesn't necessarily have to make you happy long or short term, it might just be a constant state of "abnormal" hedonism. maybe you have low self confidence and do things to make others feel happy while making you feel miserable.

I don't know I'm just hung up on how the long/short term hedonism influences actions and if a misjudgment on the relative merit in both those scenarios can create an anti hedonism case.
 
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