What matters more, intention or consequence?

[magpie]

I was hoping we could talk about motivation, intent, action, and consequence without resorting to reductive, easy, and obfuscatory terms like narcissism, sadism, or evil.

Does anyone ever not act from a place of good intention, or not assume they're doing the right thing? What makes an action wrong or bad? If what makes an action wrong is that someone is harmed by it, does the intention of the person who carried out the harmful action matter? What matters more, the intention of the person not to harm or the fact that a person was harmed? Can a person even be harmed by someone who did not intend to do harm? Does anyone ever intend to harm?

 

[/DG/]

It is highly dependent on the scenario, though the former usually has a greater emphasis.

Example: A child runs out in front of your car.

A: You frantically try to do everything in your power not to hit the child. You would never wish to do that to anyone. Tragically, you accidentally kill the child. You feel overwhelming remorse and guilt for what you have just done.

B: A slow grin forms on your face as you press your foot harder onto the gas pedal. You barrel straight into the child, killing him...and it gives you an immense feeling of satisfaction.

Why in the world would we punish the two the same?

But intention isn't everything.

Example 2: A man and woman are married. The man has anger issues and occasionally hysterically screams at, threatens, berates, and insults his wife out of impulse. But after he does it, he always feels remorse. He doesn't mean to hurt her. He loves her. But he just can't seem to help himself, even with therapy. He cannot change, no matter how hard he tries and no matter how much support he has.

Intention doesn't matter at that point. She needs to dump his ass and never return.

 

[1010830]

Is this even a question? Consequence, of course.

If you're shot 10 times in the chest by a killer, it's your fault you were on the wrong place on the wrong time.
You were run over by a truck? Well you are a fucking retard for not looking both ways before crossing the damn street.
Boss fired you just because you look ugly? Then you probaly are uglier than you think, get a surgery.
Whatever happens to you is your responsability, doesn't matter if what triggered the happenstance is your fault or not.
Just learn to deal with it and don't be a complaining faggot. Take responsability to what happens to your ass.

tl;dr: Don't like the heat? Then get of the kitchen.

 

[/DG/]

If you're shot 10 times in the chest by a killer, it's your fault you were on the wrong place on the wrong time.

Boss fired you just because you look ugly? Then you probaly are uglier than you think, get a surgery.

Are you being serious right now? I can't tell if you're being a troll or not. What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[magpie]

B: A slow grin forms on your face as you press your foot harder onto the gas pedal. You barrel straight into the child, killing him...and it gives you an immense feeling of satisfaction.

Do people like this actually exist, or is this a cartoonish caricature of what we perceive evil to be?

Example 2: A man and woman are married. The man has anger issues and occasionally hysterically screams at, threatens, berates, and insults his wife out of impulse. But after he does it, he always feels remorse. He doesn't mean to hurt her. He loves her. But he just can't seem to help himself, even with therapy. He cannot change, no matter how hard he tries and no matter how much support he has.

Intention doesn't matter at that point. She needs to dump his ass and never return.

Is this man a bad person?

 

[/DG/]

Do people like this actually exist, or is this a cartoonish caricature of what we perceive evil to be?

While rare, those types of people do seem to exist. Just look at the child who loves to torture animals, or the serial killer that brags how he loved to watch the fear in the eyes of those he has killed.

Is this man a bad person?

I've struggled with figuring this part out, to be honest. The overly emotional part of me likes to say "yes," but it is more complex than that.

 

[1010830]

Are you being serious right now? I can't tell if you're being a troll or not. What the fuck is wrong with you?

No empathy. Why, what would you say? Cry over a sad loss for humanity? One person dies every 7 seconds. By the time you finished reading this, some 4 more coffins are going to be assigned new corpses. And the body count keeps growing. And I'm not saying anything untrue. If you were shot, it's nobody business except yours and maybe those who care about you. If anything, the state should try and contain crime statistics, but that's all.

 

[magpie]

No empathy. Why, what would you say? Cry over a sad loss for humanity? One person dies every 7 seconds. By the time you finished reading this, some 4 more coffins are going to be assigned new corpses. And the body count keeps growing. And I'm not saying anything untrue. If you were shot, it's nobody business except yours and maybe those who care about you. If anything, the state should try and contain crime statistics, but that's all.

You are a valuable example of a specific point of view. What are your specific intentions for saying these things in this thread?

 

[1010830]

You are a valuable example of a specific point of view. What are your specific intentions for saying these things in this thread?

Pointing out what should be done considering an utilitarian approach.
OP asked a question and I answered it.

 

[magpie]

Pointing out what should be done considering an utilitarian approach.
OP asked a question and I answered it.

Uh huh. Why did you answer it? Were you trying to be helpful? Or was it another reason?

 

[/DG/]

No empathy. Why, what would you say? Cry over a sad loss for humanity? One person dies every 7 seconds. By the time you finished reading this, some 4 more coffins are going to be assigned new corpses. And the body count keeps growing. And I'm not saying anything untrue. If you were shot, it's nobody business except yours and maybe those who care about you. If anything, the state should try and contain crime statistics, but that's all.

So if the person closest to you dies, you wouldn't feel anything at all? You'd make a great serial killer. Have fun.

 

[1010830]

Uh huh. Why did you answer it? Were you trying to be helpful? Or was it another reason?

I just answered a question. It's not rocket science.
If thats not enough for you, then have it clear I really don't feel like sleeping right now, but at the same time I'm tired to the point of not being able to focus on a chess board, so I'm wasting my time here instead of on chess.com.

 

[1010830]

So if the person closest to you dies, you wouldn't feel anything at all? You'd make a great serial killer. Have fun.

Personal argument. That's a logical fallacy.
Regardless, I'm talking about people I never saw nor heard about.
If someone I loved died, I'd feel sad. I wouldn't cry like a baby, but I'd probaly cry, as that already happened to me some couple times.
Having no empathy doesn't mean you're a serial killer.

 

[magpie]

I just answered a question. It's not rocket science.
If thats not enough for you, then have it clear I really don't feel like sleeping right now, but at the same time I'm tired to the point of not being able to focus on a chess board, so I'm wasting my time here instead of on chess.com.

That's really good, thanks. I can tell you're completely clueless but you've just acted as an example of what I was talking about in my OP. Have a nice night.

 

[/DG/]

Personal argument. That's a logical fallacy.

That wasn't an argument. That was a question. Read it again.

Regardless, I'm talking about people I never saw nor heard about.
If someone I loved died, I'd feel sad. I wouldn't cry like a baby, but I'd probaly cry, as that already happened to me some couple times.

Well I'm glad to know you seem to have a mild amount of feelings toward other human beings as opposed to none at all.

Having no empathy doesn't mean you're a serial killer.

I didn't say that either. You really need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

I said that you could make a great serial killer. Maybe you'll like it.

 

[1010830]

That wasn't an argument. That was a question. Read it again.


Well I'm glad to know you seem to have a mild amount of feelings toward other human beings as opposed to none at all.


I didn't say that either. You really need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

I said that you could make a great serial killer. Maybe you'll like it.

If that wasn't a personal argument, then we're not arguing at all, when I thought we were.
When you typed "So if the person closest to you dies, you wouldn't feel anything at all? You'd make a great serial killer", the fact that "You'd make a great serial killer" is written with the verb "would" and comes right after what seems to be a rhetorical question (a conclusion rather than a question) as in "so if X, then X?" means the second connotation is a conclusion of the first. Therefore if anything it's not me to improve my reading comprehension but for you to learn how put across your thoughts more clearly. Are you even a native English speaker? If yes, from what country?
I know this is whole post is childish but I really have a lot of time to waste right now and I love to fight.

 

[magpie]

Consider: If new user 1010830 gives offensively shitty and potentially harmful advice but just intended to "answer the question. It's not rocket science" and user DG is alarmed and/or offended at the shitty advice, does DG have a right to be alarmed/offended, if the intention wasn't to alarm or offend? Was any offense commited? Was it even possible for new user 1010830 to give bad advice if (s)he didn't intend to? And does new user 1010830's own admittance to lack of empathy make him/her a bad person?

 

[1010830]

Consider: If new user 1010830 gives offensively shitty and potentially harmful advice but just intended to "answer the question. It's not rocket science" and user DG is alarmed and/or offended at the shitty advice, does DG have a right to be alarmed/offended, if the intention wasn't to alarm or offend? Was any offense commited? Was it even possible for new user 1010830 to give bad advice if (s)he didn't intend to? And does new user 1010830's own admittance to lack of empathy make him/her a bad person?

DG has the right to be offended but that's not anyone's businesses but himself's.
Offense might have been commited from his perspective. From my perspective, I'm merely saying the truth.
You can't give bad advice if your intention is to help, though I'm not really wanting to help anyone, merely trying to show why I'm right.
The fact my lack of empathy makes me a bad person depends on the fact that empathy makes someone good, and that is also a matter of perspective.

From mine, empathy is illogical. Each ought to sought what's best to himself.

 

[/DG/]

Is this suddenly some weird combo between English class and philosophy class?

Edit: meant to direct quote the new guy's literary analysis of my speech

 

[á´…eparted]

It depends on the situation. Sometimes, intention matters a ton, sometimes not at all. Sometimes the consequences matter, sometimes not at all. Sometimes it's a mix of both.

They are both independent variables. They relate to one another, and effect each other, but can be completely isolated from one another.