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Do you believe there is such thing as evil?

CitizenErased

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What is the first thing you think of when you hear the word 'evil'? What's your thinking process and conclusions regarding the word?

Something that is only produced by humans. Other animals act on instinct, and in the laws of Nature, attacking others is just in order to eat/defend themselves or their group. In the world of the other animals, there is no moral, no judges, therefore no good or evil.

Humans, on the other hand are capable of evil because they can produce damage/pain, etc to others for no instinctual reason (self-defense/food). I'd summarize "evil" in two types (what it comes to mind now, maybe later I find others): jealousy (acting on it) and greed, i.e.: hurting others because they are "more", and hurting others because one wants to have "more".

I actually have a theory, in which evil in humans prevents overpopulation, but never developed it. Maybe one day.
 

Mole

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Ideology is:
1. predigested thought
2. serves interests
3. and has a demonology

And demons are evil beings, except we have no evidence demons exist. In fact we have accurate explanations of those things demons are supposed to cause.

So we can say evil, in the form of demons, is the result of ideology.

However demonising individuals or groups has real negative consequences for them.

Classically we have demonised Jews by calling them Christ killers, leading to the holocaust. And although the West no longer demonises Jews, Islam relentlessly demonises Jews across the world.

In short, evil is a supernatural being, and supernatural beings have not been shown to exist. So instead of supernatural beings we demonise natural beings.
 

LightSun

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To me evil exists in two areas. One is bio-chemical. Some have a genetic predisposition to be sociopaths. I believe this to be the minority. Most of evil is perpetrated by ignorance, blind spots, emotional reasoning, denial and rationalization.
 

Mole

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We came the closest to absolute evil as we have ever come in the Holocaust, or Shoah. In response to this greatest of evils we drew up and ratified the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Today the Declaration is our touchstone of good and evil, and those who reject it put themselves outside the pale.For instance the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Co-operation), consisting of 57 Islamic States, have publicly and openly rejected the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in favour of Sharia.

We know what evil is and that evil hides itself, it elides itself, in the hope of winning us over.
 

LucieCat

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I see evil as a spectrum. Very few things fall on either extreme.

People also have good and evil inside us similarly. Many factors and our own personal choices determine which pendulum we swing more towards. But most people are going to be towards the middle. No one is pure, and a person who is consumed by the bad is very rare.

That's just how I see it though.
 

Obfuscate

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i think of evil as self centeredness taken to an extreme... i think of it as the absence of consideration for those outside of self, often melded with a depraved sort of hedonism...
 

Nomendei

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We know what evil is and that evil hides itself, it elides itself, in the hope of winning us over.

Do you see evil as an entity or do you mean this metaphorically?
 

Nomendei

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The first things that comes to my mind whenever I hear the word evil, sadly, are humans. The cruelty we are capable of. All the hatred across the world, the suffer across history. Humans have always been afraid. Thus, they invented themselves a god. And every religion starts the same, but they dislike each other. So, they make war, and every evening they count the corpses. Humans are cowardly hypocrite. They don’t like responsibility. To avoid them, they invented themselves a devil. A creature full of death and destruction. A creature to blame for all the chaos on earth. The incarnation of evil.

But there’s no such thing as the devil. There are only humans, and the atrocious acts we committed. Kids pushing other kids to suicide, populations making genocides, believers killing for ideas. We created this abstract idea called evil to set us apart from our crimes. We don’t want to be related to those who commit them, so we call them evil. They are evil, and we are good. And in-between there’s a huge gasp, separating the two sides. But this believe is completely wrong. Like numerous scientific experiments have shown, there’s not a distinct line between good and evil. There’s not a big difference between us and the SS-Soldaten who worked in Auschwitz. But no matter the evidences, we don’t want to accept it. And those who do, are typed as Psychopaths. But honestly, who has never wished for someone to die. Who has never thought about killing someone, at least in dreams. I recently could observe that madness is like gravity, all it takes is a little push.
 

LightSun

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I agree. But there are also people who are psychopaths and sociopaths who fit that definition, and those people have something wrong with their brains, lack a conscience, etc. They were born that way. So, if they are mentally ill, and they have no control over their actions because they lack something somewhere that makes them unable to feel, are they considered evil. In other words, if there is a physical cause for that type of behavior, is that evil or is it a disease/disorder, or both.

GIjade wrote, (1) "...people who are psychopaths and sociopaths..."

Evil consists of two categories. One is biochemical. It is inherent in their DNA and as you have said there are individuals who seemingly do not possess a conscious or feel remorse for their actions. The other component is ignorance. Ignorance manifests in the form of rationalizations, denial, emotional reasoning and blind spots. All manner of evil has been done by the latter all the while professing they are loving as well caring souls. They lack the mindfulness of critical thinking, reason and reflection. They may hold on to love but without reason they are half blind.

(2) "...mentally ill...have no control over their actions because they lack something somewhere that makes them unable to feel, are they considered evil." and (3) "...there is a physical cause for that type of behavior, is that evil or is it a disease/disorder, or both."

I do not like to use subjective labels as evil. Rather it is human ignorance. They would be considered evil by their fellow man. Irregardless they must face the consequences of their actions. Society has to be safeguarded from those who lack morality and perpetuate crimes against their fellow man. To answer your question it is both disease and the label evil.
 

LightSun

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I believe there are objectively evil actions that one can take. But I don't believe that people are innately evil, as hatred never exists purely for hatred's sake.

Kullervo wrote, (1) "I believe...objectively evil actions..."

As I said I don't like using labels such as evil. However a person who harms another person verbally, physically, psychologically or sexually is doing harm. They must be stopped and be held accountable as they are acting out of concert with society and peaceful coexistence mixed with compassion, respect and understanding.

(2) "...I don't believe that people are innately evil..."

There is the biological component where some people are born without a conscious. This would qualify as evil. And as forementioned causing harm to others is out of balance and ignorance.

(3) "...hatred never exists purely for hatred's sake."

I don't want to generalize. I do not know what causes hatred. certainly there are many variables. lack of understanding and fear come to mind.
 

LightSun

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Yes. I do. I think that all people are by nature evil.

We have to supress this desire out of fear-fear of looking at ourselves truly-fear and awareness of what accepting our true nature would really entail for us. Death, self destruction, chaos.

So we do good things, but this does not really make us good. This makes us good liars, this means that we can do good things-this might even mean that we trick ourselves into thinking the world is a good place. But look closer and you will see.

The fact is. Everything dies. Everything, from the moment of its conception-is slated to end. This is nihilism, but I mean, it is-well-a potentiality if I am going to be generous. How does this connect to good and evil?

Well. Humans are aware of this, deep down. Life has no meaning-some are able to ignore and distract themselves from this better than others can. But when it comes down to it, I would again generously conceed that this is perhaps not ALL-but most. Most are aware of this. It is what separates us from animals. We are the only ones who are capable enough of tricking ourselves into thinking that deep down-it isn't all just about us. That we uphold-really uphold-higher moral values. Ones that are far away enough from evil that we might be able to consider ourselves good. But it is just not the case. When you strip it bare bones it ends up. Man has a finite amount of time, within a finite window of time. He is aware of this. He is aware of his own mortality. And at the end of the day, again, it is what he wakes up and falls asleep to every night. He would do anything to protect himself, his ego, everything. And this means, selfishness runs deep in his core. He might give up his seat to an elderly woman on a bus, but give him a gun and say it is either her or you-and if he is HEALTHY-his ego(what I am calling evil) will demand that he shoot her. It is just natural. It is arguably evil. It is arguably evil to ignore that this is evil-and it is arguably evil to say that all of the good that comes from this 'evil' does not matter.

Both have to exist to cover for the other.


Frosty wrote, (1) "...all people are by nature evil."

This is a generalization. I do not concur.


(2) "...suppress...desire out of fear-fear of looking at ourselves truly. fear and awareness... accepting our true nature..."

This falls more in line with self awareness. It is also a path to choose authenticity alongside transparency. This instead of hiding behind societal masks. This only serves to cover up a false ego. One can not find true self if one is constantly trying to live up to societies, peers and parental expectations. One must have the courage to break free and discover one's hidden latent talents and gift.

(3) "Life has no meaning-some are able to ignore...distract themselves...better than others can." and (4) "He would do anything to protect himself, his ego...selfishness runs deep in his core."


We have to find our own meaning in life. To my mind is first the discovery of your true self hidden under lies, illusions and expectations. The next step is to find one's special calling, gift and talents. The third step is to juggle pursuing your calling versus being susceptible to the worlds illusions. What are the world's illusions? Things that we as a society pay homage to such as beauty, fame, power and wealth. None of these things is in itself bad. It's only when they are pursued in an out of balanced manner.

(4) "That we uphold-really uphold-higher moral values. Ones that are far away enough from evil that we might be able to consider ourselves good. But it is just not the case."

The cause of our fooling ourselves are denial, rationalization, emotional reasoning and blind spots.
 

LightSun

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Morality is subjective. A concept of evil exists, but the definition varies between people. Most would say that an evil person is a sadistic, selfish psychopath with no moral boundaries or responsibilities. When I think of evil I think of those who take away people's ability to control their destiny, that is a high form of evil to me.
Like a person who kills another, he takes away the other persons choice to continue life.


Punderstorm wrote, (1) "Morality is subjective. A concept of evil exists, but the definition varies between people."

Morality is subjective, yes. However there are some atrocities that most human beings would label or ascribe as being evil.

(2) "...evil person...sadistic, selfish psychopath with no moral boundaries or responsibilities."

People who fall under these guidelines I believe have a genetic disposition. They apparently feel little remorse or sense of responsibility towards their fellow man in their actions. (generalization) They do not care if they harm or hurt as long as they get their goal driven objective.

(3) "...evil I think of those who take away people's ability to control their destiny..."

As I said they honor no personal boundaries or rights of others.
 

LightSun

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Propaganda. Namecalling. When I hear the word "evil", my first reaction is to examine the agenda of whoever is labelling something or someone else "evil". It is such a loaded and subjective term.


The idea of "evil" may be a useful construct when used . . . constructively, but words like that are far too often used to do more harm (evil?) than good, as in the sort of namecalling I mentioned above.

Evil exists about as certainly as Harry Potter does, but is far more ambiguous. Evil is akin to beauty in that it is not so much an inherent attribute of something as a way others see and react to that thing. There can be considerable agreement on whether certain things are evil, or beautiful, but the agreement won't be universal, and the assessment cannot be proven in any objective way. On other things there might be little agreement at all.

Coriolis wrote, (1) "Propaganda. Name calling...word "evil"...my first reaction is to examine the agenda...whoever is labeling something or someone else "evil"." and "...such a loaded and subjective term."


Calling one side the righteous good and the other the evil heathen is where many of the wars throughout history where fought. There is a belief by many (I do not subscribe to this idea) that religion is a cause of much of the world's evil. Proponents of this idea call for an end of religion. Personally I think the human species would commit all manner of evil irrespective of religion or not. The evil perpetuated would just fall under the guise of a different mantle such as nationalism.

(2) "...idea of "evil" may be a useful construct when used . . . constructively...." and "...far too often used to do more harm (evil?) than good..."

I concur. I have one pet peeve with the use of the term self righteous anger. What's more deplorable is in the Bible many people point to the fact of Jesus overturning the money lenders table. Speaking as a rational scientist first, if there is a negative emotion it is a sign of an internal disturbance. It is classified and outlined as one of numerous cognitive distortions. Secondly what did he propose to accomplish? The money lenders would just be there the next day. Personally I find this a fictionalized account of Jesus. He acted very uncharacteristically.

(3) "Evil is akin to beauty... it is not so much an inherent attribute of something as a way others see and react to that thing."


Earlier I stated that morality is subjective. But there are some things so reprehensible that they would almost certainly be classified as evil.
 

LightSun

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The first things that comes to my mind whenever I hear the word evil, sadly, are humans. The cruelty we are capable of. All the hatred across the world, the suffer across history. Humans have always been afraid. Thus, they invented themselves a god. And every religion starts the same, but they dislike each other. So, they make war, and every evening they count the corpses. Humans are cowardly hypocrite. They don’t like responsibility. To avoid them, they invented themselves a devil. A creature full of death and destruction. A creature to blame for all the chaos on earth. The incarnation of evil.

But there’s no such thing as the devil. There are only humans, and the atrocious acts we committed. Kids pushing other kids to suicide, populations making genocides, believers killing for ideas. We created this abstract idea called evil to set us apart from our crimes. We don’t want to be related to those who commit them, so we call them evil. They are evil, and we are good. And in-between there’s a huge gasp, separating the two sides. But this believe is completely wrong. Like numerous scientific experiments have shown, there’s not a distinct line between good and evil. There’s not a big difference between us and the SS-Soldaten who worked in Auschwitz. But no matter the evidences, we don’t want to accept it. And those who do, are typed as Psychopaths. But honestly, who has never wished for someone to die. Who has never thought about killing someone, at least in dreams. I recently could observe that madness is like gravity, all it takes is a little push.


Nomendei wrote, (1) "...first things that comes to my mind...I hear the word evil, sadly, are humans. The cruelty we are capable of." and "...hatred across the world, the suffering across history." and "Kids pushing other kids to suicide, populations making genocides, believers killing for ideas."

I often have call mankind a rational- irrational species. We have the gift of logic and reason. The forces that prevent us from fully accessing these gifts are denial, rationalization, emotional reasoning and blind spots. If we are to evolve as a society critical thinking must be taught and ingrained at a young age. It is through mindfulness that we become aware of our thought distortions. We as Carl Jung would say, "Must make the unconscious conscious. Only in this way can we stop being reactive and stop acting out automatically with no forethought involved.

(2) " Humans have always been afraid. Thus, they invented themselves a god. And every religion starts the same, but they dislike each other. So, they make war, and every evening they count the corpses."

I have one pet peeve with the use of the term self righteous anger. What's more deplorable is in the Bible many people point to the fact of Jesus overturning the money lenders table. Speaking as a rational scientist first, if there is a negative emotion it is a sign of an internal disturbance. It is classified and outlined as one of numerous cognitive distortions. Secondly what did he propose to accomplish? The money lenders would just be there the next day. Personally I find this a fictionalized account of Jesus. He acted very uncharacteristically.

(3) "They don’t like responsibility. To avoid them, they invented themselves a devil. A creature full of death and destruction. A creature to blame for all the chaos on earth. The incarnation of evil. But there’s no such thing as the devil..are only humans...atrocious acts we committed."

Two powerful quotes I will share: "If the devil doesn't exist, but man has created him, he has created him in his own image and likeness" Fyodor Dostoevsky (1821-1881) The Brothers Karamazov, 1879-1880


“We create that bad among ourselves. We create it; then we try to call it devil, satan, or evil. But man creates it. There is no devil. Man creates the devil.” Wallace Black Elk, Lakota

You are right we do not have a habit of being morally responsible. This would entail us having an internal locus of control. This versus an external locus of control where a person projects their inner demons and blames others and life for their difficulties and unpleasant emotions experienced. It is only with the use of critical reason, empathy, communication skills and active listening skills that we can begin to bridge the gap between the different factions. This means we must override the ego and mature both spiritually and emotionally.

(4) "We created this abstract idea called evil to set us apart from our crimes." and "They are evil, and we are good. And in-between there’s a huge gasp, separating the two sides."

Religion unfortunately can be divisive. One side believes that they are in the right and the other party is totally wrong. What must be acknowledged is our common humanity and for us to work on our similarities instead of focusing on our differences. Let each man and woman believe whatever they wish provided they do not harm another.

(5) "...numerous scientific experiments have shown, there’s not a distinct line between good and evil. There’s not a big difference between us and the SS-Soldaten who worked in Auschwitz. But no matter the evidences, we don’t want to accept it." and "..recently could observe that madness is like gravity, all it takes is a little push."

This is scary. We can revert to bestiality fairly quickly and justify it to the aforementioned: denial, rationalization, emotional reasoning and blind spots.
 

LightSun

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"I do not like to use subjective labels as evil. However a person who harms another person verbally, physically, psychologically or sexually is doing harm. As I said they honor no personal boundaries or rights of others. They must be stopped and be held accountable for they are acting out of concert with society and peaceful coexistance mixed with compassion, respect and understanding. It is human ignorance.
Irregardless they must face the consequences of their actions.

Society has to be safeguarded from those who lack morality and perpetuate crimes against their fellow man. Morality is subjective. But there are some things so reprehensible that they would almost certainly be classified as evil. Evil consists of two categories. All manner of evil is done is blind spots of awareness (hence human ignorance), rationalization (lack of awareness), denial (lack of awareness) and emotional reasoning (ignorance). There is the biological component where some people are born without a conscious. This would qualify as evil. And as aforementioned causing harm to others is out of balance and ignorance. It is biochemical.

It is inherent in their DNA and as you have said there are individuals who seemingly do not possess a conscious or feel remorse for their actions. They apparently feel little remorse or sense of responsibility towards their fellow man in their actions. (generalization) They do not care if they harm or hurt as long as they get their goal driven objective. All manner of evil has been done by the latter all the while professing they are loving as well caring souls. I have one pet peeve with the use of the term self righteous anger. What's more deplorable is in the Bible many people point to the fact of Jesus overturning the money lenders table. Speaking as a rational scientist first, if there is a negative emotion it is a sign of an internal disturbance.

It is classified and outlined as one of numerous cognitive distortions. Secondly what did he propose to accomplish? The money lenders would just be there the next day. Personally I find this a fictionalized account of Jesus. He acted very uncharacteristically. People lack mindfulness of critical thinking, reason and reflection. They may hold on to love but without reason they are half blind. it is important to have an internal locus of control responding to each situation with reason and compassion.

Calling one side the righteous good and the other the evil heathen is where many of the wars throughout history where fought. There is a belief by many (I do not subscribe to this idea) that religion is a cause of much of the world's evil. Proponents of this idea call for an end of religion. Personally I think the human species would commit all manner of evil irrespective of religion or not. The evil perpetuated would just fall under the guise of a different mantle such as nationalism.

It is the old adage of taking the much more difficult high road. It is easy to succumb to base emotion and react outwardly against the world or another person. This shows an external locus of control. The individual will blame others or life for their predicament and their own internal feelings. However taking this approach you are hurting yourself. There is a valuable lesson for you to learn when triggered. It stabs at unresolved issues and conflict. Now is the time to grow. But it is a choice. Do you have that iron steel discipline of mindfulness and taking self responsibility. Or else do you cave in and do the easy thing by playing the blame game, condemning and judging.

How does hatred enter the mix of evil? I don't want to generalize. I do not know what causes hatred. certainly there are many variables. lack of understanding and fear come to mind. How long will evil last on this earth? Until we develop a society of like minded individuals who realize the great truth of taking self responsibility. Such a society is unlikely to exist when we can't even have dialogue at the highest political positions in the country using reason and a debate style of mutual respect. What is evil's worst portrayal? It comes in the form of nationalistic wars and inhumanity against fellow humans. War is a human disease. We were not meant for war psychologically.

The after affects is swept under the covers while we raise the flag and announce our patriotism. Believe me nationalism and patriotism blinds the individual to the fact that we have a social responsibility for all beings as well all life forms. I've read in the comments it is a choice. Yet I have heard accounts of men who committed heinous acts and despised and hated themselves for it. It goes back to the unconscious and as Jung said, "To make the unconscious conscious."

Until we have a pretty good grasp on parental upbringing, cognitive disciple in the school systems to teach critical thinking and having empathy skills as part of the curriculum this mad merry go round of dysfunction breeding 2/3 dysfunctional families according to resiliency studies. We have not grown spiritually or emotionally since the dawn of man. What we do have are laws. But all these laws were fought against implementation and a lot of misery came through trying to implement change. We are not true humanitarians who look out for the interests of all mankind.

What is the only recourse available to a single individual in a world surrounded by war and hate? Taking the high road and walking the middle path is a hard life choice. It must be implemented in the school systems by instructing empathy and critical reasoning. Sadly, we are the less for it."
 

Nomendei

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Firstly I want to thank [MENTION=7680]lightsun[/MENTION] for giving me your opinion. I truly appreciate it, because it gives me a new sight to my philosophy. The neutrality, or the reasonability and diplomacy, you showed in your post, is remarkable.
Being extremely interested in this topic, I went through the whole thread, reading each post. The following ones have tingled my curiosity and my interest, so I would like to give my opinion to them.
Evil is self-entitlement acted upon by people usually lacking in impulse control. Evil people are basically animals driven and motivated by their desires.
Desire is what keeps us alive. Without desire, there’s no motivation. What I think repugnant are humans without an ounce of ambition. It simply disgusts me. But those are my personal feelings, and they are not absolute. And what I think you meant was sexually driven desires, like those of rapists. In this case I absolutely agree with you.
Yes. But not completely. What I’m about to write can be seen as extremely controversial and disrespectful towards Jews, so I have to precise first that there’s no excuse for the Holocaust, and a totally disapprove what has been committed by the Nazis during WW2. However, Hitler did a lot of economic improvement for Germany. He could be seen as the Hero who saw himself becoming the villain. Don’t forget that he was a nominee to for a Nobel peace prize. But he used too many morally wrong ways to reach it to be considered a hero.
Yes. Evil is satan, the devil, his demons, and all those people he can get a foothold in (which isn't hard).
I used to think evil was a principle only, but now I know it is a real entity or force with intent and motive. The spiritual antithesis of God and good.
I will be honest with you. I don’t like you. Or at least I don’t like your beliefs. Don’t see this as hostility, it’s not. I just don’t approve what you are saying. “I think, therefore I am.” If our thoughts shape our identity, and I dislike your thoughts, then I dislike you. I think you an example of the humans I mentioned in my previous post. Could you say straight in the face of a mother, that the one who raped and killed her child, the one who destroyed everything she had in an obscene and atrocious manner, was himself the victim of an entity taken right out of a book, an entity whose existence isn’t even proven? I sincerely hope that I am misinterpreting your words. I find your thoughts interesting, and if I would know you in real life, I would gladly invite you for the best beer I know, at a local brewery. I would love to know what could possibly persuade you to think the way you do.
sure:

evil, god, religion, capitalism, socialism

all true inventions
I don’t understand why a lot of people think that capitalism is bad. What can possibly make someone believe that capitalism is bad. There’s not a single economical system that works better than capitalism. Where were you during history class? It’s a thematic too complex to debate about in this thread. I think I will do some researches.
I'm evil.
So cute.
Jesus is well know for casting out demons.

In the first century they believed demons cause physical and mental illness, they literally believed evil beings caused physical and mental illness, while today we believe germs, lesions, or genetics cause physical or mental illness.

And because Jesus cast out demons in the first century, the Vatican approves and authorizes the Catholic Society of Exorcists, who actually cast out demons today.

So even today we still have evil beings.

And I must admit I do admire Satan who said, "I would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven". No whimpering that He had been abused as a child, making no excuse that He was mentally ill, rather glorying in His evil. A role model for evil.
Again, I don’t understand your beliefs. And even your thinking process. You say that Jesus casted out demons, then you say it wasn’t demons but “germs, lesions, or genetics cause physical or mental illness.”. After this, you wrote that the reason the Vatican approves exorcism, and then, out of nowhere you claim that we still have evil beings. Are there still evil beings because Jesus casted out demons and the Vatican still authorizes it? But in this case why were you talking about germs, lesions, or genetics cause physical or mental illness? I’m really confused because I don’t really understand what you wanted to say. Anyways, like I wrote for [MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION], I dislike believers who don’t assume their responsibilities. But due to the fact that I don’t understand what you are trying to say, I won’t judge you too much.
 

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Regressive Liberalism is evil.
 

Mole

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Firstly I want to thank [MENTION=7680]lightsun[/MENTION] for giving me your opinion. I truly appreciate it, because it gives me a new sight to my philosophy. The neutrality, or the reasonability and diplomacy, you showed in your post, is remarkable.
Being extremely interested in this topic, I went through the whole thread, reading each post. The following ones have tingled my curiosity and my interest, so I would like to give my opinion to them.

Desire is what keeps us alive. Without desire, there’s no motivation. What I think repugnant are humans without an ounce of ambition. It simply disgusts me. But those are my personal feelings, and they are not absolute. And what I think you meant was sexually driven desires, like those of rapists. In this case I absolutely agree with you.

Yes. But not completely. What I’m about to write can be seen as extremely controversial and disrespectful towards Jews, so I have to precise first that there’s no excuse for the Holocaust, and a totally disapprove what has been committed by the Nazis during WW2. However, Hitler did a lot of economic improvement for Germany. He could be seen as the Hero who saw himself becoming the villain. Don’t forget that he was a nominee to for a Nobel peace prize. But he used too many morally wrong ways to reach it to be considered a hero.

I will be honest with you. I don’t like you. Or at least I don’t like your beliefs. Don’t see this as hostility, it’s not. I just don’t approve what you are saying. “I think, therefore I am.” If our thoughts shape our identity, and I dislike your thoughts, then I dislike you. I think you an example of the humans I mentioned in my previous post. Could you say straight in the face of a mother, that the one who raped and killed her child, the one who destroyed everything she had in an obscene and atrocious manner, was himself the victim of an entity taken right out of a book, an entity whose existence isn’t even proven? I sincerely hope that I am misinterpreting your words. I find your thoughts interesting, and if I would know you in real life, I would gladly invite you for the best beer I know, at a local brewery. I would love to know what could possibly persuade you to think the way you do.

I don’t understand why a lot of people think that capitalism is bad. What can possibly make someone believe that capitalism is bad. There’s not a single economical system that works better than capitalism. Where were you during history class? It’s a thematic too complex to debate about in this thread. I think I will do some researches.

So cute.

Again, I don’t understand your beliefs. And even your thinking process. You say that Jesus casted out demons, then you say it wasn’t demons but “germs, lesions, or genetics cause physical or mental illness.”. After this, you wrote that the reason the Vatican approves exorcism, and then, out of nowhere you claim that we still have evil beings. Are there still evil beings because Jesus casted out demons and the Vatican still authorizes it? But in this case why were you talking about germs, lesions, or genetics cause physical or mental illness? I’m really confused because I don’t really understand what you wanted to say. Anyways, like I wrote for [MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION], I dislike believers who don’t assume their responsibilities. But due to the fact that I don’t understand what you are trying to say, I won’t judge you too much.

Jesus believed supernatural beings exist, I don’t.
 
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