Do religious people ACTUALLY believe in their books?

[EcK]

I thought this was an interesting point.
The point being: does the religious folk ACTUALLY believe in their religion.

By which I mean: if they did really think that the Bible or Quran or whichever is god-sent then... Why don't the follow these books ?

I mean, if you think about it. You could argue that 'extremist muslims' are right in its statement that they are actualgood muslims.
You could claim that the KKK is more 'christian' than most. IE: the ancient testament recognizes slavery etc.
The reason for which is that, to people who don't believe in that stuff, the morals of religious books was the morals of thousands of years ago in primitive areas of the earth. So it's not surprise they'd think that gays should be stonned etc. Because they were culturally retarded compared to us today.
But if you believe it's GOD SENT. Then why wouldn't you follow it? Most fervent believers people don't. And actually think that people who do are monsters.

Here's a video illustrating that point

 

[Dyslexxie]

I would assume most average practitioners of a faith don't take it literally but only use the holy books as guidelines and interpret the texts in a way that makes most sense to their lives - hence all the branches of major religions.
Atheist here though, this is all based on what I've heard.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

It depends on the individual, but doubt is discouraged. There are people in every religion who believe their books and ideas 100%. There is also a process of bringing doubt back to faith. There are also people in every religion who are involved because it is their social niche. If your extended family, your friends you went to school with, your employer, etc., are all part of the same religion, you tend to go to its services, reference it in conversations over dinner. Rejecting the idea implies rejecting the social bonds. There is a feeling of social closeness, stability, and safety to share beliefs. The ideas bond people together just as strongly as emotions can. The more intense and controlling the religion, the more the individual's social life is invested in it, and the more they will be shunned if they reject the ideas.

 

[EcK]

I would assume most average practitioners of a faith don't take it literally but only use the holy books as guidelines and interpret the texts in a way that makes most sense to their lives - hence all the branches of major religions.
Atheist here though, this is all based on what I've heard.

Yes but how can they?
I mean, if GOD tells you to stone gays, and GOD tells you that slavery is good through an ANGEL.
That is not something to take as SECOND DEGREE.

That is a commandment from God, creator of the universe.

That's not something NOT TO take literally.

 

[EcK]

It depends on the individual, but doubt is discouraged. There are people in every religion who believe their books and ideas 100%. There is also a process of bringing doubt back to faith. There are also people in every religion who are involved because it is their social niche. If your extended family, your friends you went to school with, your employer, etc., are all part of the same religion, you tend to go to its services, reference it in conversations over dinner. Rejecting the idea implies rejecting the social bonds. There is a feeling of social closeness, stability, and safety to share beliefs. The ideas bond people together just as strongly as emotions can. The more intense and controlling the religion, the more the individual's social life is invested in it, and the more they will be shunned if they reject the ideas.

I agree. However my point was not about the social cost of not believing but whether people ACTUALLY believe it.
I mean, most of what's in these books would label you as a racist, homophobic, morally repugnant pro-genocide asshole these days. If that's what God says you should be then why is it that I keep hearing that 'x is not a Christian, X is not a real jew, X is not a real Muslim' when I read the book and I'm like 'well, that's what it says, I could easily make a point that X is actually a better christian/jew/muslim than you.

It doesn't mean I think people should follow these books. I think if people really did civilization would go back 2000 years.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I thought this was an interesting point.
The point being: does the religious folk ACTUALLY believe in their religion.

By which I mean: if they did really think that the Bible or Quran or whichever is god-sent then... Why don't the follow these books ?

I mean, if you think about it. You could argue that 'extremist muslims' are right in its statement that they are actualgood muslims.
You could claim that the KKK is more 'christian' than most. IE: the ancient testament recognizes slavery etc.
The reason for which is that, to people who don't believe in that stuff, the morals of religious books was the morals of thousands of years ago in primitive areas of the earth. So it's not surprise they'd think that gays should be stonned etc. Because they were culturally retarded compared to us today.
But if you believe it's GOD SENT. Then why wouldn't you follow it? Most fervent believers people don't. And actually think that people who do are monsters.

Here's a video illustrating that point

Many make the false assumption that 'primitive ancient ways' are somehow better than spiritually-guided ways. However, primitives from many cultures sacrificed their children to the death, often tortuously, for their gods. These are the same cultures that also practiced sexual immorality and sodomy.

God's people have always been set apart. And God chose certain people whom He speaks with directly to share His message. This is how the Bible was compiled. How do we know which 'book' is the right book? They will know you by our love for one another and by your fruits:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them." ~Matthew 7:15-20

But ultimately God has created those that are the called, His chosen ones. He has to draw you to Him. If He does not, people will not only not believe in the Bible, but they will not believe in religion at all.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Yes but how can they?
I mean, if GOD tells you to stone gays, and GOD tells you that slavery is good through an ANGEL.
That is not something to take as SECOND DEGREE.

That is a commandment from God, creator of the universe.

That's not something NOT TO take literally.

This is what God said:

“If your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you shall not make him serve as a slave" ~Leviticus 25:39

Yes, they could make slaves of the nations around them, but they were taught they had ONE LAW for themselves and the foreigners in their land. Also, that slaves should not be oppressed.

So, you see, it was God's way that slaves would be better off serving His people for all their generations than serving in ignorance the pagan nations they came from.

Kind of like how an adopted child is better off with a good set of parents than the crime and drug infested parents he/she might have been born to.

 

[Lark]

Yeah, I do, although by all means spend a lot of time telling me why I dont, be sure and back it up with "evidence" from the sorts of guys I'd not waste time getting a coffee with in person.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

This is what God said:

“If your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you shall not make him serve as a slave" ~Leviticus 25:39

Yes, they could make slaves of the nations around them, but they were taught they had ONE LAW for themselves and the foreigners in their land. Also, that slaves should not be oppressed.

So, you see, it was God's way that slaves would be better off serving His people for all their generations than serving in ignorance the pagan nations they came from.

Kind of like how an adopted child is better off with a good set of parents than the crime and drug infested parents he/she might have been born to.

Did you just compare a slave to an adopted child?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Well, I think the analogy is sound.

They are both sold or given away, without any say in the matter. And they are better off with people who WANT Them and can take care of them than with those who don't or can't.

God cares most for the weak and the oppressed and the orphaned.

 

[Poki]

Many make the false assumption that 'primitive ancient ways' are somehow better than spiritually-guided ways. However, primitives from many cultures sacrificed their children to the death, often tortuously, for their gods. These are the same cultures that also practiced sexual immorality and sodomy.

God's people have always been set apart. And God chose certain people whom He speaks with directly to share His message. This is how the Bible was compiled. How do we know which 'book' is the right book? They will know you by our love for one another and by your fruits:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them." ~Matthew 7:15-20

But ultimately God has created those that are the called, His chosen ones. He has to draw you to Him. If He does not, people will not only not believe in the Bible, but they will not believe in religion at all.

Lucy, we got alot of bad fruits who believe they are good...let's start a burnin. Wait..Isn't that the whole religious war issue. Sounds like Mathews taken at word is bad juju. We all have good and we all have bad, it is up to us to differentiate the 2. Good luck with rotten fruit on a bad tree. A wise man m
Can differentiate good from bad and remove the bad leaving the good. Sometimes that means disposing of the whole, but not until after inspection of the whole.

Of course then we just say screw it and flood the world, let's start over.

 

[Lark]

Many make the false assumption that 'primitive ancient ways' are somehow better than spiritually-guided ways. However, primitives from many cultures sacrificed their children to the death, often tortuously, for their gods. These are the same cultures that also practiced sexual immorality and sodomy.

God's people have always been set apart. And God chose certain people whom He speaks with directly to share His message. This is how the Bible was compiled. How do we know which 'book' is the right book? They will know you by our love for one another and by your fruits:

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them." ~Matthew 7:15-20

But ultimately God has created those that are the called, His chosen ones. He has to draw you to Him. If He does not, people will not only not believe in the Bible, but they will not believe in religion at all.

I think the last bit is heretical to be honest, I dont believe all that stuff about names written in the book of life, its an obscure reference like all the rapture or end times obsessing about revelations/apocalypse.

Apart from that, Matthew? Great book, one of the greatest books I ever read in my entire existence, would be one of the three books I'd base my entire life on and I dont know what the other two are yet.

I like James, from the new testament, and I've always liked the other prophetic books of the bible because I've always like Prophets and Sages. Wisdom is worthwhile. People would do well to try and discover it instead of shutting up the people pursuing it or trashing the books that could be spring boards to it in favour of mere knowledge. More and more knowledge.

The idea of election has a bad history, it once was used to justify actual ethno-nationalism of the sort you read about in the old testament and which infused, in spirit, things like the Aryan cult in Nazi Germany or the Uber Mensch idea. Its a poor way of trying to explain why are there "good" people and "bad" people. Primitive typology/traitology.

Like the idea of atheists in a state of grace? Its a logical conclusion from the theory of election, or the confessions of a justified sinner by James Hogg? Its full of the logical conclusions too, like being able to commit whatever sins you feel like because you're one of the choose, that's right out of ISIS's play book.

 

[Lark]

Lucy, we got alot of bad fruits who believe they are good...let's start a burnin. Wait..Isn't that the whole religious war issue. Sounds like Mathews taken at word is bad juju. We all have good and we all have bad, it is up to us to differentiate the 2. Good luck with rotten fruit on a bad tree. A wise man m
Can differentiate good from bad and remove the bad leaving the good. Sometimes that means disposing of the whole, but not until after inspection of the whole.

Of course then we just say screw it and flood the world, let's start over.

Poki have a care because the final line is modern day Malthusianism to a tea, and that thinking has currency, its the hate my neighbour philosophy at the heart of a lot of conservative vote winners which deny the entire community any sort of public expenditure because of the existence of a few "useless bastards" who become the focus.

For all the projecting the flood onto God I'm sure there were and are people who would want to engineer one every day of the week.

I'm not just talking ISIS either, I'm talking about the sorts of people who hate immigrants, hate strangers, hate the poor or just think every other individual they meet is an asshole predator (very possibly just like they are and they're attributing their motives to everyone in the general population).

I fucking hate Malthusianism. Of the flood myth, the thing I like the most is that God created the rainbow because God was to over wrought at how much of a mistake it was to become to angry and wreck havoc on creation.

 

[Poki]

Poki have a care because the final line is modern day Malthusianism to a tea, and that thinking has currency, its the hate my neighbour philosophy at the heart of a lot of conservative vote winners which deny the entire community any sort of public expenditure because of the existence of a few "useless bastards" who become the focus.

For all the projecting the flood onto God I'm sure there were and are people who would want to engineer one every day of the week.

I'm not just talking ISIS either, I'm talking about the sorts of people who hate immigrants, hate strangers, hate the poor or just think every other individual they meet is an asshole predator (very possibly just like they are and they're attributing their motives to everyone in the general population).

I fucking hate Malthusianism. Of the flood myth, the thing I like the most is that God created the rainbow because God was to over wrought at how much of a mistake it was to become to angry and wreck havoc on creation.

It was sarcasm and a progression of the thought pattern of disposing of the burning the bad tree not to mention irony of that which is good comes from god. The irony of that whole saying is funny and sad.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Well, I think the analogy is sound.

They are both sold or given away, without any say in the matter. And they are better off with people who WANT Them and can take care of them than with those who don't or can't.

God cares most for the weak and the oppressed and the orphaned.

Because human trafficking is god's will.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Of the flood myth, the thing I like the most is that God created the rainbow because God was to over wrought at how much of a mistake it was to become to angry and wreck havoc on creation.

I don't think He realized it was a mistake at all. God does not make mistakes.

He segregated His chosen ones by undoing Day 3 of creation, essentially, because He was ashamed that man had only wickedness in his heart all the day long. It was after Noah and His sons built an altar to God and sacrificed and gave thanks to God for saving them that God smelled the aroma of their sacrifice and promised to never destroy life on the earth again, because He was pleased that His people would now have a chance to live and flourish in His will upon the earth.

"While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease.” ~Genesis 8:22

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Because human trafficking is god's will.

Christians would not engage in human trafficking. Human trafficking is a sin.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Christians would not engage in human trafficking. Human trafficking is a sin.

Re-read your reasoning. Seriously!

 

[ZNP-TBA]

I don't think He realized it was a mistake at all. God does not make mistakes.

He segregated His chosen ones by undoing Day 3 of creation, essentially, because He was ashamed that man had only wickedness in his heart all the day long. It was after Noah and His sons built an altar to God and sacrificed and gave thanks to God for saving them that God smelled the aroma of their sacrifice and promised to never destroy life on the earth again, because He was pleased that His people would now have a chance to live and flourish in His will upon the earth.

"While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease.” ~Genesis 8:22

Do you accept Noah, the flood, and the ark as literal history?

 

[Poki]

I don't think He realized it was a mistake at all. God does not make mistakes.

He segregated His chosen ones by undoing Day 3 of creation, essentially, because He was ashamed that man had only wickedness in his heart all the day long. It was after Noah and His sons built an altar to God and sacrificed and gave thanks to God for saving them that God smelled the aroma of their sacrifice and promised to never destroy life on the earth again, because He was pleased that His people would now have a chance to live and flourish in His will upon the earth.

"While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease.” ~Genesis 8:22

Now that quote bears no evil just mean with the heat and cold, couldn't we have fall and spring all year around... . He is an evil god...just playing with that last part. It's fun playing with patterns. Was serious about quote bearing no evil though. Good quote and positive