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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Do you think that Francis Bacon was intelligent?
    Yeah...what of it?
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  2. #132
    Feline Moderator The Cat's Avatar
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    The Sleeper must awaken...

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomb1 View Post
    Yeah...what of it?
    A Little Philosophy Inclineth Mans Mind to Atheism; But Depth in Philosophy, Bringeth Mens Minds about to Religion - Francis Bacon

    A Little Philosophy Inclineth Mans Mind to Atheism; But Depth in Philosophy, Bringeth Mens Minds about to Religion – Quote Investigator

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    A Little Philosophy Inclineth Mans Mind to Atheism; But Depth in Philosophy, Bringeth Mens Minds about to Religion - Francis Bacon

    A Little Philosophy Inclineth Mans Mind to Atheism; But Depth in Philosophy, Bringeth Mens Minds about to Religion – Quote Investigator
    Appeal To 16th Century Philosopher Fallacy.

    "Religious people can be intelligent" and "There's no intelligent argument for God" are not mutually exclusive.

    Present what you believe to be an intelligent argument for God.
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  5. #135
    blackbird, fly Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomb1 View Post
    Appeal To 16th Century Philosopher Fallacy.

    "Religious people can be intellig[INDENT]ent" and "There's no intelligent argument for God" are not mutually exclusive.
    You can also be an atheist and defend lots of terrible, dipshit ideas, although you will probably get a pass from many people because of the dynamics of the culture war. You might even get held up as some kind of genius.
    A path is made by walking on it.

    -Zhuangzi



  6. #136
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    why does society demand we lie. From the time we're kids dealing with detention, and having to write lies over and over again, as though the punishment fits the "crime" we're all groomed from the time we're born. If we don’t respond to the carrot, there's always sticks and eventually stones. Society has all sorts of illusions for what "right" is. And an nigh endless list of who is "wrong" and I promise you, if you are truly honest with yourself, you'll find yourself on that list too. No matter how "right" you deceive yourself you are. So why is there not more mercy and compassion? Because society isn't about that. Society condemns those who are like that. Because people like that are harder to CONTROL. It all just keeps devouring its own tail. And the rest of us can either get with the program, and be "right" or we can be "real" and be ground up to lube the gears.
    The Sleeper must awaken...

  7. #137
    Senior Member Justin of Flavia Neapolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mysterious Stranger View Post
    why does society demand we lie. From the time we're kids dealing with detention, and having to write lies over and over again, as though the punishment fits the "crime" we're all groomed from the time we're born. If we don’t respond to the carrot, there's always sticks and eventually stones. Society has all sorts of illusions for what "right" is. And an nigh endless list of who is "wrong" and I promise you, if you are truly honest with yourself, you'll find yourself on that list too. No matter how "right" you deceive yourself you are. So why is there not more mercy and compassion? Because society isn't about that. Society condemns those who are like that. Because people like that are harder to CONTROL. It all just keeps devouring its own tail. And the rest of us can either get with the program, and be "right" or we can be "real" and be ground up to lube the gears.
    The groundwork for this was laid down well before John Calvin, but his ideas are what under girds modern society and its notions of right and wrong. This whole podcast series is especially interesting, and this episode touches upon your concerns, perhaps. There is an idea inherent in Calvinism called: "The Elect" and the "Unregenerate." You can see examples of this in modern "pop Christianity." Movies like "Left Behind" and the notion of "The Rapture" are a product, albeit distorted and completely wrong, of puritanical Calvinism. And hey, guess what? Calvinism is making a comeback in the United States.

    The Fall of Paradise VII: From Communion to Commonwealth in Puritan England - Paradise and Utopia | Ancient Faith Ministries

    "Patriots" in the USA will claim that "'Merica is a Christian Nation" to which I would argue: No, it's a Calvinistic nation. The last great Christian Nation (empire) was the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman/Greek), to which it fell in 1453 to the Ottomans. The fleeing Byzantines brought ancient Greek thought with them to the West which kicked off the Renaissance period with the advent of Humanism. Humanism then gave birth to Rationalism, which eventually led to the Protestant Reformation, among which Calvin was very influential in. Calvinism then warred with Catholicism for many years competing on the world stage by placing colonies in newly discovered lands. The USA is one such Calvinistic colony. The USA is Secular by way of Calvinism as a result of the wars between Western Christianity which were traumatically remembered in relatively recent memory as more and more Western Europeans sought to disconnect the Church from the State. Orthodox/Catholics would never come up with the idea of "Secularism" which is why the Russian Empire was the last European imperial dynasty to fall to an outgrowth of Secularism called "Socialism" imported from the West.
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  8. #138
    Scary old man OldFolksBoogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mysterious Stranger View Post
    why does society demand we lie. From the time we're kids dealing with detention, and having to write lies over and over again, as though the punishment fits the "crime" we're all groomed from the time we're born. If we don’t respond to the carrot, there's always sticks and eventually stones. Society has all sorts of illusions for what "right" is. And an nigh endless list of who is "wrong" and I promise you, if you are truly honest with yourself, you'll find yourself on that list too. No matter how "right" you deceive yourself you are. So why is there not more mercy and compassion? Because society isn't about that. Society condemns those who are like that. Because people like that are harder to CONTROL. It all just keeps devouring its own tail. And the rest of us can either get with the program, and be "right" or we can be "real" and be ground up to lube the gears.
    I look at it as a question of membership in ideological tribes.

    Membership in ideological tribes requires wearing a straitjacket. Because at some point, ideologies always come into conflict with common sense. Tribes are exclusionary as much as inclusionary, and exclusionary/inclusionary boundaries demand black-and-white thinking at some point.

    On the other hand, avoiding membership in ideological tribes can be equally problematic. Man is a tribal animal, and it gets lonely outside the tribes. There's also the problem of how you relate to members of tribes, who will try to hit you with either exclusionary (rejection) or inclusionary (recruitment) tactics, and so on.

    My opinion: Smart people keep aloof from tribes but adopt protective coloring: Wear the grays of the non-participant when tribes conflict (for example, refuse to participate in political arguments by insisting that you're apolitical); or camouflage yourself as belonging to the predominant tribe when one tribe is in the ascendent (don't question the "truths" that prevail in a dominant culture).

    An alternative is to maybe play the fool, the idiot, or the madman: For example, the comedian who does "edgy" stuff and crosses the line in comedy routines. That can be good camouflage when life puts you outside the bounds of the dominant tribe and there's nothing else you can do to hide your outsider status and deflect criticism.
    Likes StrawberryBoots, Tengri liked this post

  9. #139
    Senior Member ???'s Avatar
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    Is everyone just a bot? Does it matter?
    We are Bob.

  10. #140
    ヒカラのミコト Earl Grey's Avatar
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