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Why Do People Insist...

Sunflower_Moon

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Why do people seem to insist on making others believe in a god or even a particular religion? I know part of that is rhetorical, but what's the big deal if we don't all believe in the same?

Why can't people be happy and secure with themselves in their religion and try to hijack the souls of others? While they go about accomplishing this intrusive feat, they lose sight of their own soul and don't realize their own behaviors and judgments go against their religion.

Why is every person required to even believe that a god exists? For example, if I don't believe in a god, how does that impact you personally? I don't believe in organized religion, and I get a lot of grief for it. When I used to believe in an organized religion, I used to get a lot of grief for not believing in a particular organized religion. I'm not even positive that I believe in a god.

I'll say I lean more toward believing that one exists that has nothing to do with religion, but if not, I just believe in the souls existing after death, possible reincarnation, and some type of spirit world, but not the pearly gates and heaven. I don't feel threatened when others don't believe the same as I do...they have the right to make that choice for themselves. What happened to free will that the God of these religions believed in and have people?

People think they have the right to take away the free will that God supposedly gave us to force their religion on others? I just think religion and spirituality is an individual private thing that should be of free will to join for it to be genuine...not manipulated, guilted, or bullied into. I think people should be able to speak about their beliefs openly, but respecting differences of others...religious tolerance. I know that's pretty idealistic, but it would definitely be a better world of people left each other alone regarding religion and truly practice religious tolerance.


That's the end of my religious or spiritual thoughts for the day lol!
 

Chrysanthea

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Probably because they feel it is their duty to spread their religion. If someone knew the truth and that truth was that I would go to Hell if I didn't believe in a certain deity, then I would sure hope they cared about everyone else enough to share that truth, or else that would put such a follower in bad light for holding back the knowledge to his own religion's form of enlightenment.

Though I completely empathize with you regarding how annoying people can be about boasting how their religion is the best one, even though it's purely based off of their egotism... most of my family does it. And I think people get upset when someone they hold dear to themselves carry completely different beliefs, because then they themselves will feel less doubtful about their own religion when they have more support, because that's the way organized religion works. Though that's just a hypothesis really. All I know is that, without community, organized religion is a failure.
 

Edgar

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Why do people seem to insist on making others believe in a god or even a particular religion?

The people I've known who insisted on making others believe in God fell into two categories: 1. Those who think they have the whole world figured out and are convinced that anyone who doesn't share their belief is an idiot, or 2. The covertly insecure who have invested a large portion of their lives into a certain belief and are looking for safety in numbers.

I've come across some devout people who didn't fall into either of these categories and they never imposed on my atheism.
 

BadOctopus

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I don't care what people believe, as long as they don't try to tell me that dinosaur bones were planted by the Devil.
 

Lark

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Why do people seem to insist on making others believe in a god or even a particular religion? I know part of that is rhetorical, but what's the big deal if we don't all believe in the same?

Why can't people be happy and secure with themselves in their religion and try to hijack the souls of others? While they go about accomplishing this intrusive feat, they lose sight of their own soul and don't realize their own behaviors and judgments go against their religion.

Why is every person required to even believe that a god exists? For example, if I don't believe in a god, how does that impact you personally? I don't believe in organized religion, and I get a lot of grief for it. When I used to believe in an organized religion, I used to get a lot of grief for not believing in a particular organized religion. I'm not even positive that I believe in a god.

I'll say I lean more toward believing that one exists that has nothing to do with religion, but if not, I just believe in the souls existing after death, possible reincarnation, and some type of spirit world, but not the pearly gates and heaven. I don't feel threatened when others don't believe the same as I do...they have the right to make that choice for themselves. What happened to free will that the God of these religions believed in and have people?

People think they have the right to take away the free will that God supposedly gave us to force their religion on others? I just think religion and spirituality is an individual private thing that should be of free will to join for it to be genuine...not manipulated, guilted, or bullied into. I think people should be able to speak about their beliefs openly, but respecting differences of others...religious tolerance. I know that's pretty idealistic, but it would definitely be a better world of people left each other alone regarding religion and truly practice religious tolerance.


That's the end of my religious or spiritual thoughts for the day lol!

I think people seek to evangelise others for a lot of reasons, many simply because its their tradition and recommended to them as something they ought to do, for some its a manner in which they compensate for private or personal doubts, in some people I even think this is an unconscious thing and they are fighting to keep it out of their awareness, rationalising, dismissing, projecting, resisting insight, the whole gamut of psychoanalytic ego defences are in play.

For others they possess a religious drive, perhaps as Viktor Frankl suggested they have repressed it that repression has given rise to its reassertion in all manner of ways, eventually in some sort of revival or rebirth, which could be for good or ill depending on how it is channelled. Unfortunately there are a lot of traditions which lend themselves not to the serious contemplation of life, death, infinity, continuity, order, chaos, cosmos, divinity, deity but to precisely the opposite. I know some very, very learned and scholarly people, people who are erudite, eloquent and clever whose beliefs are not tested or challenged, least of all by they themselves, and who build entire systems upon closing their minds and being glad of it.

I wish you luck, you remind me of myself in my teens, I had a lot of friends from evangelical churches who I felt were seriously in error, both by the lights of reason and revelation/religion. Sounds like you are thinking about a lot of interesting things and there are a lot of sources out there. Arthur Schopenour (spelling) and Hegel were both philosophers who contemplated the ideas of a world spirit or process, with or without personal survival in an afterlife, reincarnation or a personalised God, then others like Nietzsche, Wagner etc. sort of morphed the idea into life force or life itself, even though possibly pointless, tragically recurrent etc. Camus and (mainly french) existentialists added their own ideas with the advent of full blown and widespread atheism going on the rise. Check it all out.

I'm personally part of one of the most organised religions there is, Roman Catholicism, I try to practice it as best I can but I know I'm a bad catholic, fall short and am not as informed of my own traditions as many. I dont know if people who are not practicing catholics are destined for a hellish existence in this life or any other, if they exist, so I dont speak with certainty upon that point. I make no pretense particularly to knowing the mind of God, not myself, not through tradition, not through scripture so. However, I find that this tradition rests upon a foundation of thousands of years of enduring wisdom and scholarly insight, its failings are the direct consequence of any institution being only as good as the people making it up, who're always going to be human, all to human. I dont expect anyone whose experience is not the same as mine to value it in the same way but I recommend it to others as something to consider.
 

Lark

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I don't care what people believe, as long as they don't try to tell me that dinosaur bones were planted by the Devil.

I dont concern myself with that much either, what of it? If it is the case what does that do for the price of bread eh? Can you or cant you rely on your neighbour or neighbourhood in a crisis?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I think people seek to evangelise others for a lot of reasons, many simply because its their tradition and recommended to them as something they ought to do, for some its a manner in which they compensate for private or personal doubts, in some people I even think this is an unconscious thing and they are fighting to keep it out of their awareness, rationalising, dismissing, projecting, resisting insight, the whole gamut of psychoanalytic ego defences are in play.

For others they possess a religious drive, perhaps as Viktor Frankl suggested they have repressed it that repression has given rise to its reassertion in all manner of ways, eventually in some sort of revival or rebirth, which could be for good or ill depending on how it is channelled. Unfortunately there are a lot of traditions which lend themselves not to the serious contemplation of life, death, infinity, continuity, order, chaos, cosmos, divinity, deity but to precisely the opposite. I know some very, very learned and scholarly people, people who are erudite, eloquent and clever whose beliefs are not tested or challenged, least of all by they themselves, and who build entire systems upon closing their minds and being glad of it.

I wish you luck, you remind me of myself in my teens, I had a lot of friends from evangelical churches who I felt were seriously in error, both by the lights of reason and revelation/religion. Sounds like you are thinking about a lot of interesting things and there are a lot of sources out there. Arthur Schopenour (spelling) and Hegel were both philosophers who contemplated the ideas of a world spirit or process, with or without personal survival in an afterlife, reincarnation or a personalised God, then others like Nietzsche, Wagner etc. sort of morphed the idea into life force or life itself, even though possibly pointless, tragically recurrent etc. Camus and (mainly french) existentialists added their own ideas with the advent of full blown and widespread atheism going on the rise. Check it all out.

I'm personally part of one of the most organised religions there is, Roman Catholicism, I try to practice it as best I can but I know I'm a bad catholic, fall short and am not as informed of my own traditions as many. I dont know if people who are not practicing catholics are destined for a hellish existence in this life or any other, if they exist, so I dont speak with certainty upon that point. I make no pretense particularly to knowing the mind of God, not myself, not through tradition, not through scripture so. However, I find that this tradition rests upon a foundation of thousands of years of enduring wisdom and scholarly insight, its failings are the direct consequence of any institution being only as good as the people making it up, who're always going to be human, all to human. I dont expect anyone whose experience is not the same as mine to value it in the same way but I recommend it to others as something to consider.

Perhaps I am being illogical, but I detect a contradiction.
 

Also

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Evangelism, The Great Commission. The answer is that simple.
 

Tellenbach

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Ideologies legitimize stupid, irrational beliefs -- that you are entitled to someone else's time, money, or life and provides just enough motivation to act on them. The person who forces his beliefs on another through force or violence is an evil person and should be treated as an evil person.

The answer to the OP's question: because many, many people are evil.
 

Lark

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The people I've known who insisted on making others believe in God fell into two categories: 1. Those who think they have the whole world figured out and are convinced that anyone who doesn't share their belief is an idiot, or 2. The covertly insecure who have invested a large portion of their lives into a certain belief and are looking for safety in numbers.

I've come across some devout people who didn't fall into either of these categories and they never imposed on my atheism.

The most curious thing about it is that while many evangelists exist who with minor or rudimentary acquaintance with scripture, by which I do not mean a lack of familiarity but a lack of understanding and critical insight as the devil can quote scripture when he wants to, seek to spread their word because solo scripture (a decontextualised idea from the time of the first popularly printed editions of the bible) tells them to.

Although research their theology in depth and they profess the idea of election, which suggests that people are predestined to heaven or hell, belief has little or nothing to do with it, vagaries, taken as literal truths, about whether or not your name is "written in the book of life" have lead them to this conclusion.

So evangelism doesnt matter, if you are predestined to heaven or hell what does it matter what you believe? In fact what does it matter what you do?

This is jumping off point for one of the greatest pieces of religious literature I ever read, confessions of a justified sinner by James Hogg, in which a character convinced of his own justification or preordained, predestined salvation, does as they please eventually escalating to murder, there's a debate as to whether or not a figure influencing them to this is actually the devil in disguise but the point Hogg was unmistakeably making was the monsterous creeds lead to monsterous deeds.

So I think there is a difference, its worthwhile researching it if you take your beliefs seriously and are spiritually inclined, its not all about where you hang your hat on a sunday or shouldnt be.

Though I would agree that there's underlying characterology which attracts or repels most people to one or another sort of church and its beliefs anyway, most of the time, its powerfully sociologically and psychologically determined and I'm not convinced divine intervention operates to overcome it that often.
 

Lark

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Evangelism, The Great Commission. The answer is that simple.

Perhaps there are those who believe that winning converts guarantees them something, I dont believe it will, if good works are void as salvation is an unconditional gift, good news, of which people need only be aware to be happy, surely so evangelism is the same?

Nice point though.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm glad.

I'm surprised that anyone so sure and certain as you would benefit from participating in a discussion forum. What a world, what a world.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I'm glad.

I'm surprised that anyone so sure and certain as you would benefit from participating in a discussion forum. What a world, what a world.

There is still much I can learn from other people.
 

ceecee

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I have no idea why people continue to evangelize, even when they have been asked not to, even when they know a person is of another religion or no religion at all. It's like the rules of being a rude, pushy fuck doesn't apply to them and they revel in that. I can tell you that I have never been approached in this way by anyone of the Jewish, Muslim or Buddhist religions, not once and I know people of all those faiths. Only the Christians and mostly the Protestant denominations that are well know for this type of behavior. I also agree that many of them are incredibly insecure and couldn't function without the crutch of their religion. I assume they feel most people need this type of assistance, just like they do.
 

Lark

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There is still much I can learn from other people.

Apparently, from your previous post alone, that they are all the same, to speak of one is to speak of them all and uniformity prevails.

Think about it.

As opposed to merely trying to appear clever.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Apparently, from your previous post alone, that they are all the same, to speak of one is to speak of them all and uniformity prevails.

? Can you post where I've said this? Do you mean when I posted in a poll that I think race doesn't make sense as a category?
 

Lark

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I have no idea why people continue to evangelize, even when they have been asked not to, even when they know a person is of another religion or no religion at all. It's like the rules of being a rude, pushy fuck doesn't apply to them and they revel in that. I can tell you that I have never been approached in this way by anyone of the Jewish, Muslim or Buddhist religions, not once and I know people of all those faiths. Only the Christians and mostly the Protestant denominations that are well know for this type of behavior. I also agree that many of them are incredibly insecure and couldn't function without the crutch of their religion. I assume they feel most people need this type of assistance, just like they do.

I find it difficult to fault your experience, since its your experience, I've had very similar experience too but I try not to generalise.

There's the possibility that some evangelists just want to spread their views, the same as you and others would like to spread the gospel of the LGBT scene, you know what I mean?

I see a lot of similarities between these sorts of things, which you no doubt wont, and believe, like I've said before, that there's an underlying chacterology driving much of it, its not typology, or maybe it is but not of the MBTI or Enneagram or Socionics or other varieties, but anyway.
 

Lark

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? Can you post where I've said this? Do you mean when I posted in a poll that I think race doesn't make sense as a category?

I'm not talking about your poll, I'm talking about when you quoted my post.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I'm not talking about your poll, I'm talking about when you quoted my post.

I didn't say that? I merely pointed out that you are criticizing evangelism when you appear to be doing evangelizing. It is illogical to do so.
 
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