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  1. #611
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Well, that just requires a different understanding of existence, and possibly of space and time as well.
    Exactly, a different one. I did not presume to convince anyone with sheer logic, because if the outcome is unwanted, you just need to re-interpret the problem. I merely wanted to share this thought.

  2. #612
    Sniffles
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    I'm still reading this over, but this piece The Rationality of Christian Faith by Yves R. Simon may shed some light on the issue at hand.

  3. #613
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    I will wait for the relevant parts to be quoted.

  4. #614
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Creationism and Islamism

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyTick View Post
    As far as creationism vs evolution - both are credible.
    The origin of species, which you call evolution, is a scientific fact, while creationism is silly nonsense.

    And creationism now has strange bedfellows as the Islamists are adopting creationism as their own..

  5. #615
    Let Go Of Your Team Zarathustra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The origin of species, which you call evolution, is a scientific fact, while creationism is silly nonsense.
    Not if the point of Creation is considered the Big Bang.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    And creationism now has strange bedfellows as the Islamists are adopting creationism as their own..
    Since when were the Islamists not Creationists?
    The Justice Fighter

    INTJ - 6w5 8dw 3w4 sx/so - Neutral Good

    "I trust what you are doing though…I just see it a little differently.
    I don’t see it as you stepping away from the fire. I see it as the fire directing your course.
    No matter how airy or earthy or watery you become... to many of us you will always be...a super nova."

    "Behind these gates of seeming warmth sits, loosely chained, a fierce attack dog. Perhaps not crazy, but dangerous"

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  6. #616
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Not if the point of Creation is considered the Big Bang.
    We're talking about the Biblical God, right?
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  7. #617
    Senior Member MoneyTick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    The origin of species, which you call evolution, is a scientific fact, while creationism is silly nonsense.

    And creationism now has strange bedfellows as the Islamists are adopting creationism as their own..
    Ohh boy, really?

    I think you skipped out on reading the last couple of posts.

    Did evolution here on earth start before the earth was formed?

    Certainly, the Big Bang was the catalyst that created the earth.

    But the Big Bang was a random event made possible by gravity, the elements found in a nebula, and time.

    SO ... If God did not ordain the Big Bang - Who or what created existence, time, and space?

    Did existence, time, and space create itself?

    Did the distant stars create themselves out of nothing?

    If I see a beautiful painting in an art gallery - is it fair to say that the painting did not have a painter? Did the painting create itself out of nothing?

    I see a chemistry textbook on my shelf. Is it safe to say that my college chemistry textbook did not have a writer? Did the chemistry textbook write itself?

    Please, don't confuse this with the Bible's version of creationism. The Bible's version of creationism does not jive well with scientific fact.

    I am talking about the fact that there must have been a "higher power" that created the universe in the first place, or that directs the intricacies of its existence.

    Evolution? WHAT?

    Who cares about evolution? Evolution is a fairly recent phenomenon, creationism deals with the creation of the universe and subsequent events thereafter.

    HENCE,

    If the earth wasn't created FIRST, there WOULD BE NO evolution. Unless of course, evolution created the earth. In which case we would have to merge the two words "evolution" and "big bang," which would make no sense.

    The creation of the universe comes FIRST, the development of cellular tissue and organisms comes SECOND (after the universe and earth were created).

    Creationism deals with the former, evolution deals the the latter.

    Thereto, you can't say creationism is "silly." Because evolution would be quite silly if the earth wasn't created in the first place.

    If time, gravity and matter were not present to create the nebula that developed into the big bang, that slowly created the form of the earth, that slowly fostered the formation of cellular tissue and bacteria, that slowly evolved into us humans - we wouldn't even be here at all.

    So the question isn't evolution, it's what do we do when science hits a brick wall and can't explain the unexplainable.
    got chaos?

  8. #618
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    I assume that those who are suggesting that God cant plausibly exist dont believe in an after life or reincarnation or anything like that?
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

    whether or not you credit psychoanalysis itself, the fact remains that we all must, to the greatest extent possible, understand one another's minds as our own; the very survival of humanity has always depended on it. - Open Culture

  9. #619
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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  10. #620
    Senior Member MoneyTick's Avatar
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    Documented evidence that there is life after death:

    http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research10.html

    How about being dead in a hospital bed, the blood from your brain depleted, your lungs collapsed, your heart stopped beating - and you saw exactly how the doctors operated on your body for emergency surgery. Luckily, they were able to revive this woman, and later she remembered and recited every word the doctors spoke to the nurses, the exact incisions they made, and she even told the doctors at what time they were able to get her heart beating again because she was able to see the clock in the operating room.

    Did any of you ever watch TAPS? Its a show on discovery that investigates and scientifically documents evidence of paranormal activity.

    I've met some people that don't believe in this kind of stuff because they use science as the basis for their their beliefs.

    If you are a scientifically orientated person, you would obviously concur with the notion that there is in fact a spiritual realm whereby "ghosts" and "spirits" manifest themselves in the real world.

    If people don't believe in the real-world manifestation of spirits, then they must be either mentally challenged or lack the ability to fully comprehend simple scientifically documented evidence of which I presume we all here on Typology Central are capable of.

    Thereto, I presume that if spirits and postmortem phenomenon are real - then there must be something that is spiritual in nature after death.
    got chaos?

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