Lent 2015

[Lark]

What are you doing to observe Lent 2015 if you are religiously observant of Lent and Easter?

 

[Coriolis]

Many people view Lent as a time of self-denial, and speak in terms of what they are going to give up for Lent. It always seemed silly to me to give something up just for the sake of it. I am fine with self-sacrifice, but prefer it directly benefits others in some way. In this spirit, I tend to look for what I can do for others during lent: perhaps a random act of kindness each day, or working on being nicer or more considerate to specific people that I feel I have ignored or perhaps have a conflicted relationship with.

 

[Lark]

Many people view Lent as a time of self-denial, and speak in terms of what they are going to give up for Lent. It always seemed silly to me to give something up just for the sake of it. I am fine with self-sacrifice, but prefer it directly benefits others in some way. In this spirit, I tend to look for what I can do for others during lent: perhaps a random act of kindness each day, or working on being nicer or more considerate to specific people that I feel I have ignored or perhaps have a conflicted relationship with.

In many ways I agree with you, and when I have tried that periodically in the past I have found just how difficult it is, you start out doing random acts of kindness and then your realise its all been different sorts of financial transactions, like filling the meter for someone when its going to run out or paying for a suspended coffee for someone, then you try and do ones which are not financial in nature. Its not easy.

I like the idea of trying to change patterns of behaviour for the better and at the very least modelling the sort of behaviour you would like to see in the world, being the change you would like to see, although some of that, for me as a believer, is the mark of a post-Nietzschean/Existentialist world. Perhaps the after life was used to deprive people of life in the here and now, all "pie in the sky" promises, literally, but it can go too far in the other direction too.

I've not reached any final conclusions about all this but I tend to think that some of the older, oldest maybe, spiritual disciplines in their recommendation that you adjust so as to minimise your material desires or try to switch from the having to the being mode of living, are spot on. Whether there is an after life or not.

Then again its not easy to know, many a virtue was turned into a vice in its pursuit.

 

[Coriolis]

There is much wisdom in this post.

In many ways I agree with you, and when I have tried that periodically in the past I have found just how difficult it is, you start out doing random acts of kindness and then your realise its all been different sorts of financial transactions, like filling the meter for someone when its going to run out or paying for a suspended coffee for someone, then you try and do ones which are not financial in nature. Its not easy.

Interesting. I agree about it not becoming all financial, but don't seem to have trouble finding other ways to show kindness. I might offer to do a job at work that no one likes but has to be done, like put out the lab trash. Or I might write a note (actual paper snail-mail note) to someone I haven't been in touch with for awhile, or give someone a ride somewhere, or do an extra volunteer activity. It can be hard to find one for every single day, then again I might do several on one day, say write several letters.

I like the idea of trying to change patterns of behaviour for the better and at the very least modelling the sort of behaviour you would like to see in the world, being the change you would like to see, although some of that, for me as a believer, is the mark of a post-Nietzschean/Existentialist world. Perhaps the after life was used to deprive people of life in the here and now, all "pie in the sky" promises, literally, but it can go too far in the other direction too.

The promise of the afterlife has often been used by those in power to manage the expectations of the disadvantaged.

've not reached any final conclusions about all this but I tend to think that some of the older, oldest maybe, spiritual disciplines in their recommendation that you adjust so as to minimise your material desires or try to switch from the having to the being mode of living, are spot on. Whether there is an after life or not.

Then again its not easy to know, many a virtue was turned into a vice in its pursuit.

Too much of a good thing? There is definite value in the highlighted. It is a much better way to view what often is protrayed as simple self-denial, in that it focuses on the benefit to the person taking on the discipline. It also ties in with many meditation practices I know of. I used to meditate rather regularly; perhaps this Lent I should work on reestablishing the habit.

 

[gromit]

I have used giving up something as a way to remind myself of a character change I'm currently working to cultivate.

So giving up junk food... when I am craving potato chips or snickers and then DONT eat it, I can use that moment of awareness as a reminder to check in with myself about my efforts to be more cognizant of the needs of others, offering my help or comfort where they can be of use.

I don't know if it's symbolic or not. But it is I guess an outward reminder of an inward change.

 

[prplchknz]

I did enough lent and easter as a kid and really never got to decide what i gave up it was always meat. though the church it's meat,dairy, and eggs, seafood, and olive oil and alcohol except certain days we could do olive oil, wine, and seafood such as sundays cuz of eucharist kind of have to allow wine then . So i think if i feel like i don't like a person or just because I might consume the things the person is giving up for lent.

 

[Lark]

There is much wisdom in this post.


Interesting. I agree about it not becoming all financial, but don't seem to have trouble finding other ways to show kindness. I might offer to do a job at work that no one likes but has to be done, like put out the lab trash. Or I might write a note (actual paper snail-mail note) to someone I haven't been in touch with for awhile, or give someone a ride somewhere, or do an extra volunteer activity. It can be hard to find one for every single day, then again I might do several on one day, say write several letters.

If I was being picky I'd say that the note writing or lift giving take fuel or paper and pen so its some sort of resource transfer again but I see what you mean. The thing about doing the unpleasant work for a change is interesting, and useful, I've periodically done that too but I've realised, that especially in a work environment, you could be enabling slackers or competency challenged people to carry on like there's not a problem or creating an expectation that never existed before. Its a difficult one but I know what you mean, its a worthy goal. I could write a book about the hard and long thinking I've done about altruism, in many ways I despise organised and planned selfishness and most organised and planned altruism the same for very different reasons.

The promise of the afterlife has often been used by those in power to manage the expectations of the disadvantaged.

That's true but its been part of the expectation of the managers too, Nietzsche was one of the first to articulate the idea of being life affirming, in other words THIS life affirming, so that you should not forego any pleasure or describe any pleasure as sinful which is itself a pleasure. So far so good. Although a lot of the aphorisms and thinking which stem from it can be very wicked, it oft quoted saying for instance from him that "its better to seek forgiveness than permission" is a rapists charter, I know of more than one instance when someone who was an actual rapist had heard it and believed it. Nietzsche's supporters or defenders would say that he wouldnt possibly have endorsed such an outcome of his thinking, maybe that's true but I can see how it is a logical extension of his thinking.

That said I do support the life affirming ideas for the most part, although in the main because of older religious traditions, such as the judeo-christian which maintain that life is a gift, that the world is a gift, that the world was, is and will one day be restored as paradise and that God's judgement will not simply involve punishing evil doing but questioning why anyone has forgone the pleasure of life which has been provided to them and for them or prayers answered.

Too much of a good thing? There is definite value in the highlighted. It is a much better way to view what often is protrayed as simple self-denial, in that it focuses on the benefit to the person taking on the discipline. It also ties in with many meditation practices I know of. I used to meditate rather regularly; perhaps this Lent I should work on reestablishing the habit.

I do surely think that discipline has a part in it, effort especially so, its possible to get addicted to the easy life and then when the disillusion follows it to confuse the easy life with life per se.

Russell talks about that in The Conquest of Happiness, he describes it as Byronic Unhappiness, although Russell wouldnt have had any truck with religion or spirituality.

Meditation and centring exercises would definitely have something to do with it too, especially in so far as it results in altered states of consciousness, raised awareness etc.

The whole question of being and having is an old one, Fromm actually suggested that the being mode was the way to go but in most of his writing and those he was drawing on as primary sources, would suggest that its something its only possible to partially realise as an individual while social structures like the economy, education, the family, work etc. etc. all seek, consciously and unconsciously, to foster the having one instead.

 

[93JC]

I'm giving up religion for lent.

 

[prplchknz]

I'm giving up religion for lent.

just for lent

- - - Updated - - -

I'm giving up religion for lent.

just for lent

 

[ReadingRainbows]

I'm giving up cats for lent.





















just kidding

 

[Lark]

I'm giving up religion for lent.

Well as long as you remain predictable.

 

[kyuuei]

Many people view Lent as a time of self-denial, and speak in terms of what they are going to give up for Lent. It always seemed silly to me to give something up just for the sake of it. I am fine with self-sacrifice, but prefer it directly benefits others in some way. In this spirit, I tend to look for what I can do for others during lent: perhaps a random act of kindness each day, or working on being nicer or more considerate to specific people that I feel I have ignored or perhaps have a conflicted relationship with.

Aww I like this idea!

[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] there are TONS of things you can do that don't cost anything. I keep extra snacks I know I probably won't get around to eating and give them to people begging for food sometimes when I drive--or I share that half a pizza my party didn't eat with a hobo notorious for being in a particular spot on my way home. Print out some resource flyers for homeless people that they can contact and give it to them. You can thank a service member for their service (Most people seem not to over there for some reason.. my buddy nearly cried when he was thanked for his service in America for the first time, even though he told them he wasn't American.), or write a note in a study textbook (like nurses will frequently leave notes in a textbook saying, 'Hey, I was in your shoes, and it was very hard, but now I am a nurse and I made it and I know you can do it!') to a future hopeful successful tester.. Volunteer like anywhere.. soup kitchens, community centers and events, etc. Donate old clothing to a shelter. Stuff and stuff and stuff. I know it seems like it does take longer.. but that's the whole point. Money is the easy answer and way out. You cannot buy the stuff I talked about just the same way.

 

[Lark]

Aww I like this idea!

[MENTION=7280]Lark[/MENTION] there are TONS of things you can do that don't cost anything. I keep extra snacks I know I probably won't get around to eating and give them to people begging for food sometimes when I drive--or I share that half a pizza my party didn't eat with a hobo notorious for being in a particular spot on my way home. Print out some resource flyers for homeless people that they can contact and give it to them. You can thank a service member for their service (Most people seem not to over there for some reason.. my buddy nearly cried when he was thanked for his service in America for the first time, even though he told them he wasn't American.), or write a note in a study textbook (like nurses will frequently leave notes in a textbook saying, 'Hey, I was in your shoes, and it was very hard, but now I am a nurse and I made it and I know you can do it!') to a future hopeful successful tester.. Volunteer like anywhere.. soup kitchens, community centers and events, etc. Donate old clothing to a shelter. Stuff and stuff and stuff. I know it seems like it does take longer.. but that's the whole point. Money is the easy answer and way out. You cannot buy the stuff I talked about just the same way.

I know all that, although thanks for that too, I've been thinking about it a long time and practicing it all for just as long.

This Lenten fast and most Lenten fasts I think are about transformation, what works for one person will not work for all, although I think people are dismissive of sacrifice too much and under appreciate it. To exercise restraint and abstain and forego some experience which you know you want is totally and utterly contrary to every message the ad men and marketing people and consumerism as a whole delivers everyday. If you can do it in little things then perhaps when you're tested and its a big thing tempting you, as in a serious thing or a destructive thing or truly wicked thing, then you can meet that challenge too.

Personally one year I remember trying to think of the most difficult thing I could imagine, within reason, to try for Lent, I was seventeen and didnt have much of a disposable income anyway or was restricted in my life choices or options or temptations maybe, but I decided to give up anything other than drinking water. I did pretty well, considering I consumed a vast amount of diet cola (did so right up until I developed diabetes) and also coffee or caffinated soft drinks.

There was only one occasion that I broke that lent, I accidentially drank a coffee choclate milkshake, someone I knew had it and wasnt going to finish it and passed it to me while I was studying hard reading something I didnt understand and wanted to and I just thought, hey, I'd really like to try that, yes, I dont have the cash to buy one myself and when will I have the chance again, it all totally automatic and I had forgotten my fast and lent altogether. I was startled and actually jumped when I realised what I was doing. Now the friend in question was an atheist, or rather than no belief out of apathy, and I think they were interested to see if they could get me to break my fast, which I think is a bit lousy and I thought so at the time, but it was my error.

The whole thing made me think about how you can become sort of like a sleep walker, you're not totally awake to casual decisions, particularly with the smallest amount of distraction and it gave me pause to reflect on what is important really and on concentration and how it works. Those are material things I know, temporal things, not wholly spiritual I would say but you know, still matter.

 

[sprinkles]

I won't eat any more paczki until next year.

 

[ceecee]

I won't eat any more paczki until next year.

This. One is more than enough though.