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Chimpanzees are not human, but are they 'people'?

93JC

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Is a chimpanzee a 'person'? A lawsuit could hold the answer
New York court asked to consider chimpanzees legal persons so captive ones can be set free
nyt-mag-chimpanzee.png
Chimpanzees aren't humans, but are they similar enough to humans that they should be given some of the same legal rights as us? That's essentially the question before a New York court in a thought-provoking case that raises legal, scientific and philosophical issues.

An animal rights group called the Nonhuman Rights Project is trying to free a captive chimpanzee named Tommy using a novel and historic legal argument.

For the first time in a U.S. court it was argued that a non-human animal should be recognized as a legal person. The group maintains that chimpanzees shouldn't be thought of as "things" that can be owned but as "persons" who therefore have fundamental rights — namely, the right to liberty.

The group wants Tommy declared a legal person so it can get what's called a writ of habeas corpus, which would then allow the courts to determine if a person's detention is lawful.

In other words, if Tommy were considered a person his owners would have a hard time justifying his captivity, but as long as he's a "thing," it's fine to keep him locked up. His owners say, in fact, that according to the law he has to be fenced in and is not allowed to roam around their property.

"Sometimes people think we're trying to get human rights for chimpanzees. We're not. We're trying to get chimpanzee rights for chimpanzees," Steven Wise, the group's president and an animal protection lawyer, said in an interview.
 

Totenkindly

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Considering the documented changes in chimp personality that occur after puberty and chimp attacks that have occurred by even supposedly benign chimps, I think if we would like to give them their "freedom" (which is arguably a good thing), they need to be sent back to the natural habitat... either that, or chimps who commit acts of violence against other "people" need to be locked up / given the death penalty / whatever local laws attest to.

(And this can lead to more fun, like what if a chimp rapes or kills another chimp? They're both people. Now they have to be tried.... and I guess the "jury of their peers" could be a fascinating exercise in observation depending on how literally we plan to take this.)

Are chimps who are legally people allowed to drive motor vehicles and drink alcohol when they become legal age? What about voting? (And, frighteningly enough... will it radically change anything in this country? :doh:)
 

prplchknz

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Considering the documented changes in chimp personality that occur after puberty and chimp attacks that have occurred by even supposedly benign chimps, I think if we would like to give them their "freedom" (which is a good thing), they need to be sent back to the natural habitat... either that, or chimps who commit acts of violence against other "people" need to be locked up / given the death penalty.

(And this can lead to more fun, like what if a chimp rapes or kills another chimp? They're both people. Now they have to be tried.... and I guess the "jury of their peers" could be a fascinating exercise in observation depending on how literally we plan to take this.)

I would buy tickets to see that.

 

Qlip

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Chimps are capable of everything people are, running moving services, manning NASA spacecraft, performing complicated surgeries. Of course they should have rights.

 

Totenkindly

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I would buy tickets to see that.


It's just a whole can of worms that hasn't been considered.
 

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93JC

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:/

"Sometimes people think we're trying to get human rights for chimpanzees. We're not. We're trying to get chimpanzee rights for chimpanzees."


"Should we allow people to keep chimpanzees as pets?" is a question framed relative to humans and human property rights. The question being raised here is "Should chimpanzees have the right to not be kept as pets?" Given their cognitive abilities is it cruel and unusual to keep chimps?

If anything I think the biggest risk is to zoos and other wildlife preservation groups who technically are "keeping" chimps, but are doing so for good reasons (rehabilitation, population recovery programs, etc.).
 

cm81

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Chimps are capable of everything people are, running moving services, manning NASA spacecraft, performing complicated surgeries. Of course they should have rights.


Totally off topic, but who the heck is that band playing in the intro?!? :wubbie:

****Nevermind! lol

I had washed out (A dedication) quietly playing in another tab.... weird how the first few seconds of that song gave this cartoon a nice ambiance.
 
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prplchknz

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i think i'm gonna become a chimp. if they're getting equal rights everyone has to hire to me cuz i'm such a minority that if someone says no they'd get sued by human right groups. it's actually a genius plan.
 

Qlip

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i think i'm gonna become a chimp. if they're getting equal rights everyone has to hire to me cuz i'm such a minority that if someone says no they'd get sued by human right groups. it's actually a genius plan.

 

PocketFullOf

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If corporations are people I don't see why chimps can't be as well.
 

BlackDog

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They are not people, this is just romanticization after seeing too many documentaries doctored from the perspective of an observer who is biased, inadvertently or not. If chimps are people, so are plants. And so are we. In reality no one is a person, but our own species should be treated preferably because it is our own.
 

Totenkindly

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Somewhat sensationalist headline aside, well, here's the decision:

Chimpanzees have no human rights: N.Y. court

ALBANY, N.Y. (Reuters) - In the first case of its kind, a New York appeals court rejected on Thursday an animal rights advocate's bid to extend "legal personhood" to chimpanzees, saying the primates are incapable of bearing the responsibilities that come with having legal rights.

A five-judge panel of the Albany court said attorney Steven Wise had shown that Tommy, a 26-year-old chimp who lives alone in a shed in upstate New York, was an autonomous creature, but that it was not possible for him to understand the social contract that binds humans together...

Chimpanzees have no human rights: N.Y. court - Yahoo News
 

á´…eparted

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They would have never been able to come with a sound argument to support them being people. The logistics if they were would also be an impossible to solve nightmare.

On a personal note I fucking hate chimps. Least favorite animal period. They are disgusting, smell, are vindictive, mean, violent, and have no likeable qualities to them at all.
 

Cellmold

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On a personal note I fucking hate chimps. Least favorite animal period. They are disgusting, smell, are vindictive, mean, violent, and have no likeable qualities to them at all.

Sounds like the human race to me. < Cmon cliche misanthropy is all the rage.
 

Totenkindly

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I can't say I've met a chimp, ever to know.

I just see the ones in the news and cinema, and there they are either endearing and witty, or they're maltempered monsters who bite off people's faces. (Well, plus there's that dude that got smart and took over the earth after the human race was extinguished.)
 
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