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Is the alpha male more alpha than someone who laughs and looks down on him?

BlackDog

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Some people argue it's all bad to even compare wolves to humans, especially since male alpha wolves actually show great responsibility to the pack, to the females and pups.

I was just trying to think of the term for the person who just is a loner, or lone wolf. My bad.

No, not at all. Although I would make the argument that legit alphas who are not posers trying to become PUAs so they can feel good about their pitiful lives really do perform a lot of services for whoever they 'rule'. That's a big part of why they are respected.
 

Thalassa

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No, not at all. Although I would make the argument that legit alphas who are not posers trying to become PUAs so they can feel good about their pitiful lives really do perform a lot of services for whoever they 'rule'. That's a big part of why they are respected.

I agree with this. I think perhaps a true alpha sees the good in the pack or society as a whole, while it's actually probably betas ...unhealthy betas at that....who over engage in selfishness due to insecurity. I think both a healthy well adjusted beta and alpha would not be this insecure. We could go on and on theorizing (I did one day on another Web site) but it's probably likely faulty to compare humans to wolves at all.
 

BlackDog

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I agree with this. I think perhaps a true alpha sees the good in the pack or society as a whole, while it's actually probably betas ...unhealthy betas at that....who over engage in selfishness due to insecurity. I think both a healthy well adjusted beta and alpha would not be this insecure. We could go on and on theorizing (I did one day on another Web site) but it's probably likely faulty to compare humans to wolves at all.

Wolf Pack - Wolves - Wolves Fighting - Best Shot Footage - Stock Footage - YouTube
 

Thalassa

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I don't recall you mentioning the subject of homosexuality as it pertains to this definitive science of alpha-male'ness which you apparently subscribe to. Despite your preposterous claim that this concept is reliant upon fertility (and presumably sexual orientation), the term "alpha" only has relevance within a designated hierarchy.

I'm curious what your view is of Alexander the Great. He created one of the largest empires the world has ever seen and never lost a battle in 15 years, though he was bisexual and had only one child who died at the age of 12. Adolf Hitler had no offspring. If biblical prophecies about the worldwide leader referred to as the Antichrist are presumed to be true, he will have no regard for the desire of women, which doesn't necessarily indicate homosexuality, but possible asexuality, as he is described as being consumed with self-adoration. I find it mildly amusing that you probably view yourself as more "alpha" than any of these world leaders.



Do tell. I'm curious what these traits are. Do you suppose the leader of a matriarchy is less alpha than any of her subordinates?

Very good points. One of the most alpha of males was a celibate carpenter from a small middle eastern village who was crucified by his contemporaries, but has had profound social influence in multiple cultures for thousands of years. I was arguing on the other Web site I had this discussion that an alpha could be anything from a large imprisoned gang member with four children on welfare (if we go simply by breeding prowess and physical/social dominance in his own pack) to someone like Alexander the Great. Personally I think a lot of CEOs are Betas who hide behind their corporations, and for similar reasons, not too sure about Hitler. I do think Vladimir Putin is alpha though.
 

Thalassa

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If an argument can't hold up to extreme examples, then it's weak, that's why I used comic book characters BUT here's two real, crazy ass Ukrainian brothers. Both hold boxing heavyweight titles, both have PHDs. I'll spoiler the factoids, but no matter what, pretty interesting:


Wladimir Klitschko Hayden Panettiere is pregnant with his kid

u6W9oh4.png






Vitali Klitschko-Dr. Ironfist


Being "Alpha" or "Beta" has a lot of factors. If you're white AND American but not good with the ladies, go to Asia. BOOM insta-Alpha. Trust me. If we're going by your definition.

I'm not sure who brought it up, but I feel like someone thinks laughing at some large guy behind his back at a club is considered "Alpha." Nope.

Anyway, I think I've said my peace. Interesting topic though.

I don't agree with necessarily that you become an alpha male by entering an Asian country. I think this is a myth perpetuated by Western men who have a fetish for Asian women. Just because you fetishize a certain race, it doesn't make the males alpha or the females all tens just because you have a preference for that race. By a similar token, apparently women who are white and have naturally large breasts and lighter to medium colors of hair may be preferred by some Asian men, but would be called average to above average or fat (6-7, maybe 8, but not a 10. A woman who you could consider a chunky six could be the wet dream of a Persian prince )....so much of this stuff is culturally relative . Maybe that's your real point.
 

GarrotTheThief

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i think there was a study on wolves that showed the leader wolf was the wolf that could take the most bites without biting back.
 

Cellmold

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I'd happily accept the role of omegerist of omegas if it meant I didn't have to spend my time in groups who have an intense belief in this shite.
 

PocketFullOf

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Who cares?

The big shot is probably Beta and the guy making fun of him is probably Omega or Beta.
 
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God this thread is weird.

i think there was a study on wolves that showed the leader wolf was the wolf that could take the most bites without biting back.

Interesting.

I've been told by competing fighters that they scariest guy is the one you punch HARD in the face and he's eyes barely blink and he doesn't flinch.

I also read (hell i might have mentioned it here) that a lone wolf is often beta and leaves the pack and actually is very dangerous and will also sometimes start his own pack. I always thought they just kinda died off eventually without a pack to hunt with.
 

Rambling

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Do you think the status of alpha is important?

I think the status of alpha weakens society, because an alpha leader limits the decision making to the thoughts of one individual and doesn't generally listen to others. I thinks alpha males often display extreme pride, which is based off inner insecurity and a need to prove themselves to be superior.

I think it's often assumed that women are attracted to alpha men in preference to being attracted to other men, but I'm not sure the evidence supports this. I suspect this is more because the alpha man brags about his conquests and displays his women as trophies with him in public settings. To me these behaviours indicate insecurity not success.

The man laughing at the alpha male is also displaying weakness in my view. The truly strong man isn't even there in this scenario, because he's doing something of greater value with his time, whether that is more genuine socialising, listening to others, voluntary work or studying or research, so he is contributing to society or becoming able to contribute better in the future.

This debate is originally about the pecking order among males showing off in a bar. Women don't show off in such ways in a bar group of women. An alpha female will own expensive accessories such as handbags or shoes, and maybe have the perfect body or brag about her new boyfriend. Again she is trying to show that her life is perfect, and again the inner insecurity is covered by pride.

By contrast the truly confident woman doesn't need to prove her worth using accessories, externals or her alpha male type boyfriend. She is listening properly to her friend who needs to unload grief or anxiety, she is quietly paying for the drinks of those she knows struggle to afford to buy their own and she is paying gentle and true compliments to the insecure females.

It goes without saying that a truly confident man or woman doesn't need to prove their worth through sex; the alpha types are more likely to be promiscuous, in my view.
 

chubber

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I think the status of alpha weakens society, because an alpha leader limits the decision making to the thoughts of one individual and doesn't generally listen to others. I thinks alpha males often display extreme pride, which is based off inner insecurity and a need to prove themselves to be superior.

I think it's often assumed that women are attracted to alpha men in preference to being attracted to other men, but I'm not sure the evidence supports this. I suspect this is more because the alpha man brags about his conquests and displays his women as trophies with him in public settings. To me these behaviours indicate insecurity not success.

The man laughing at the alpha male is also displaying weakness in my view. The truly strong man isn't even there in this scenario, because he's doing something of greater value with his time, whether that is more genuine socialising, listening to others, voluntary work or studying or research, so he is contributing to society or becoming able to contribute better in the future.

This debate is originally about the pecking order among males showing off in a bar. Women don't show off in such ways in a bar group of women. An alpha female will own expensive accessories such as handbags or shoes, and maybe have the perfect body or brag about her new boyfriend. Again she is trying to show that her life is perfect, and again the inner insecurity is covered by pride.

By contrast the truly confident woman doesn't need to prove her worth using accessories, externals or her alpha male type boyfriend. She is listening properly to her friend who needs to unload grief or anxiety, she is quietly paying for the drinks of those she knows struggle to afford to buy their own and she is paying gentle and true compliments to the insecure females.

It goes without saying that a truly confident man or woman doesn't need to prove their worth through sex; the alpha types are more likely to be promiscuous, in my view.

It seems the definition of Alpha male is too unclear and requires context to indicate which one we are really talking about. I think the description you used in this particular context is correct. However what you are describing as "truly confident women/men" could also be described as healthy mature women and men. I'm not sure if that is really Alpha (although if Alphas are healthy parents, perhaps parents can be healthy mature men and women)

:)
 

Rambling

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It seems the definition of Alpha male is too unclear and requires context to indicate which one we are really talking about. I think the description you used in this particular context is correct. However what you are describing as "truly confident women/men" could also be described as healthy mature women and men. I'm not sure if that is really Alpha (although if Alphas are healthy parents, perhaps parents can be healthy mature men and women)

:)

I was trying to avoid making a *value* judgement...To label one behaviour as more emotionally mature than another smacks of self righteousness...another person who is nowhere near an alpha might have some other emotionally immature areas in their life.

But I tend to think to try to *become* an Alpha is an undesirable aspiration in and of itself, because the described behaviour is so external and shallow...
 

Cygnus

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The strongest man does not heed the words or desires or others, he does not react to intimidation, he follows no rules but his own, he has no ego. Anything less and he risks being controlled.
 
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