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The meaning of life

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Isn't the meaning of life really the meaning of lives, and hence particular to each life? There is no single "life" as it were... thus, we decide on the meaning of our individual lives... the meaning of my life is 'x':

A super-devoted mother says the meaning of her life is raising her kids...

A neuroscientist says it's to discover how consciousness develops from neuronal activity (or if not, how it does at all)...

An Olympic-level sprinter says it's to run faster and faster, to reach the peak of his physical abilities and know himself, his limits, his humanity, better through that...

A priest says the meaning of his life is to minister to God's people...

And who are we to argue with these and other folks with distinct ideas about the meanings of their lives?

For those who don't know, maybe the meaning of their lives is to discover some absolute meaning of life, or barring that, to simply live life... or maybe there is no meaning for them.

I guess I'm basically saying I think the meaning of one's life is what one decides it is.
 

redacted

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didn't read one post on this thread, so sorry if someone has said the same thing.

there is no meaning of life. life just is. we, as humans, define this term "meaning" and somehow expect everything to have some.

so given that nothing means anything, what are we left with? freedom. freedom to pursue our own subjective happiness.

so be selfish. always. if an action is not going to benefit you in the long term, and costs something (even any amount of effort), then don't do it.
 

gokartride

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so be selfish. always. if an action is not going to benefit you in the long term, and costs something (even any amount of effort), then don't do it.

The world would be a very dark place if this were the case. Selfless acts are (and have been) among the brightest moments in human existance.
 

Shadowrose

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The world would be a very dark place if this were the case. Selfless acts are (and have been) among the brightest moments in human existance.

Need to work on your cynicism a bit. There's no such thing as a truly selfless act. ^_^

Discuss.
 

gokartride

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I guess I'm basically saying I think the meaning of one's life is what one decides it is.

On a practical level I think this is very true, and really, one can run with this and be good to go. :yes: I do believe though, along with this, that there is something behind, perhaps even driving, the personal meaning.

I'm a dad, and a professional, and an artist, and a christian....but the deeper meaning of my purpose for existing drives everything. In my experience, I'd even say propels everything. I'm a much more adventurous, pedal-to-the-metal kinda guy with a sense of overall meaning.

I'm not sure if it's all about social expectations, either, as one can easily get quite out-of-step with contemporary culture, although that would not be a goal.
 

gokartride

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Need to work on your cynicism a bit. There's no such thing as a truly selfless act. ^_^

Discuss.
I would disagree only in that once one is above 90% selflessness...whatever 10% is left for self is a wash. :yes: People have died for others, almost as a matter of instinct. One might scrutinize these actions, but in the end someone lived and someone didn't. It happens.
 

Shadowrose

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I would disagree only in that once one is above 90% selflessness...whatever 10% is left for self is a wash. :yes: People have died for others, almost as a matter of instinct. One might scrutinize these actions, but in the end someone lived and someone didn't. It happens.

You're assuming that doing things for Self vs. for Others is a zero-sum game. I would posit that the more 'selfless' and act, in fact, the more selfish it is. There are rewards aside from resources that one can gain.

Drug Addiction's a chemical process, other things can produce the same chemicals naturally. ^_^
 

Shadowrose

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Perhaps you right, but I still think unbridled, unrestrained selfishness (as mentioned earlier) is a no-win in the long run.

Yeah, I agree there. Pure Selfishness for Monetary/Resource Gains is pretty much end-of-the-world bad. Luckily, evolution stuffed all kinds of wonky and fun chemical paths into our heads so we'd be happy just making people smile. I just posit that Altruism's a pointless concept to pursue. ^_^

I guess my point is that Selfishness is fine, but you have to realize there are more rewards than personal gain.
 

gokartride

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Luckily, evolution stuffed all kinds of wonky and fun chemical paths into our heads so we'd be happy just making people smile. I just posit that Altruism's a pointless concept to pursue.
I'm not sure I'm quite with you on this....I've seen some pretty wild stuff and no one was smiling, during or after. I suppose fulfilling a sense of meaning caused them, in a flash, to do what they did. It has been said that many of the first responders during 9/11 who perished were living the very same way they did every day prior. Perhaps there is self-motivation lurking in there somewhere, but I have to respect the actions of those who, at the moment of truth, have a clarity on what theirs lives are about and jump into the abyss, come what may....even in less extreme conditions.
 

Shadowrose

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I'm not sure I'm quite with you on this....I've seen some pretty wild stuff and no one was smiling, during or after. I suppose fulfilling a sense of meaning caused them, in a flash, to do what they did. It has been said that many of the first responders during 9/11 who perished were living the very same way they did every day prior. Perhaps there is self-motivation lurking in there somewhere, but I have to respect the actions of those who, at the moment of truth, have a clarity on what theirs lives are about and jump into the abyss, come what may....even in less extreme conditions.

I'm not saying that's the -only- way we can derive pleasure or self-fulfillment, just pointing out how the simplistic things can also fulfill us in ways money is unable to. There are certainly substantially more complex interplays at hand, and I'm unfortunately not really qualified to contemplate what might drive a person to risk his life in such a situation to save others. But, as it is, I still can't imagine it's truly altruistic, our brain is complex enough, and our instincts for breeding and self-preservation are powerful enough that they can easily sit behind every motivation.
 

gokartride

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I'm not saying that's the -only- way we can derive pleasure or self-fulfillment, just pointing out how the simplistic things can also fulfill us in ways money is unable to.
Ah, I see. Yes, this is true.

our brain is complex enough, and our instincts for breeding and self-preservation are powerful enough that they can easily sit behind every motivation.
I would never underestimate the workings of the human mind, but I would submit that, concerning the meaning of life, that there are connections that can't be accounted for by biological processes, and that the result is greater than the sum of the pieces. This is still very much a scientific mystery....but I do not believe, in the end, that the body is a machine....not fully. There is more.
 

Shadowrose

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Ah, I see. Yes, this is true.


I would never underestimate the workings of the human mind, but I would submit that, concerning the meaning of life, that there are connections that can't be accounted for by biological processes, and that the result is greater than the sum of the pieces. This is still very much a scientific mystery....but I do not believe, in the end, that the body is a machine....not fully. There is more.

I was just talking about there being no Altruistic acts. ^_^ As far as the meaning and the biological machine, I'll have to respectfully disagree with the caveat that neither of us can prove it right or wrong yet.
 

gokartride

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As far as the meaning and the biological machine, I'll have to respectfully disagree with the caveat that neither of us can prove it right or wrong yet.
Fair enough...it is only my opinion anyway based on what I have heard from current studies. I'm sure these things will remain a point of question for many decades to come as we continue to explore. I have had occasion to spend time with top scientists in various fields (back when I was doing documentaries)...truly amazing folks. Quite a view they have from the edge!!!:yes:
 

redacted

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The world would be a very dark place if this were the case. Selfless acts are (and have been) among the brightest moments in human existance.

the world is a very dark place then...

there is no such thing as a selfless act. you just gotta factor everything into selfishness. as in, if it makes you feel good to help others, you should, etc.

everything reduces to selfishness.

People have died for others, almost as a matter of instinct.

right, because in that moment, they thought they had more to gain from sacrificing themselves than not.
 

Ilah

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I will not argue that there are no selfless acts, however kindness and good deeds can be self serving in many cases.

Examples:
If I am nice to people I know, do them favors, help them, etc. that increases the chance that they will do the same for me.

Being with a person (could be friendship or romantic) gives me pleasure. In order to maintain the good relationship (increase the chances he won't break up with me) I do "selfless" things for him.

Ilah
 

gokartride

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because in that moment, they thought they had more to gain from sacrificing themselves than not.
Perhaps they were thinking of being true to their concept of "the meaning of life" as a personal "gain", which is less about getting something specific out of it than an internal consistency/integrity which could also register (in a flash) as a desirable outcome.

Any way one analyzes it, I think overall to say that selfless acts do not exist is a massive leap and gets so into the realm of speculation that is causes analytical grid-lock. That makes it all just too easy to ignore. On a practical level, choices get made...and I think in many cases the evidence of selfish motivation is very flimsy/theoretical.
 
T

ThatGirl

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IMO....

Altruism exists in small instinctual fractions of time when the mind cannot adaquatly calculate payoff or worth before action.

Example two unrelated people are walking down the street when a car jumps the curb and is comming straight for them. Instinctually you jump out of the way while pushing the other person with you.

In the moment there was not enough time to calculate the worth or potential bennifit of the act, it was just the act itself.

The more time given to rationalize a situation the less likey that altruism remains as the human mind is capable of finding the silver lining in any situation, but that doesn't change that fact that altruistic events can occure in the moment.

I wonder is that makes sensorers more suseptable to altruism?
 
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