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The most Atheist Atheist.

Qlip

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Bear with me, I'm nerding out on this right now...

I just watched this documentary, 'The Pervert's Guide to Ideology'. It attempts to expose and explain the frame work of ideology. The narrator had some very interesting things to say about Christianity.

He points out that the centerpiece of Christianity is the release from ideology. He doesn't claim that modern Christianity has no ideology, but he does claim that the message of Jesus on the Cross is the destruction of Judaic ideology.

He claims that every ideology has the idea of "the Big Other" that grants you *something* as long as you have an agreement, a contract. The ideological contract for Judaism is, which is illustrated in the story of Job is: "Do what you are told, though it may be unfathomable and you may suffer, you will be rewarded with being right."

Jesus was a symbolic negation of the Big Other, when he was made to suffer and not rewarded, thus him saying "My God, why have you forsaken me?". At this moment, the message is to no longer look to the requirements of the Big Other, because it does not exist. Instead look to the needs of community, which is a heavy theme in Christianity and the distinguishing characteristic of early Christianity.

The narrator says in this way, the early Christian was more Atheist than the modern Atheist born the Atheism. If I remember correctly, he also says that a Christian become Atheist is more Atheist than a born Atheist. Being more Atheist meaning being more free from ideology. The reason is, if you are born to being Atheist, you may never have the experience of seeing and breaking out of an ideology.

Your god, your 'Big Other', would be something else that you may not be capable of recognizing and are blinded to by the gift of being right, a function of the contract of your born to ideology. A Christian become Atheist knows that moment upon where there is no thing, where individual choice is the the only god, with no promise of gift or reward.
 

Rasofy

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Interesting.

Back in the days, God & spirituality were a given for pretty much every one, but it makes sense that they would be 'Atheist' in the 'deviating from organized religion' way.

If I remember correctly, he also says that a Christian become Atheist is more Atheist than a born Atheist. Being more Atheist meaning being more free from ideology. The reason is, if you are born to being Atheist, you may never have the experience of seeing and breaking out of an ideology.
Agreed
 

Mole

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Bear with me, I'm nerding out on this right now...

I just watched this documentary, 'The Pervert's Guide to Ideology'. It attempts to expose and explain the frame work of ideology. The narrator had some very interesting things to say about Christianity.

He points out that the centerpiece of Christianity is the release from ideology. He doesn't claim that modern Christianity has no ideology, but he does claim that the message of Jesus on the Cross is the destruction of Judaic ideology.

He claims that every ideology has the idea of "the Big Other" that grants you *something* as long as you have an agreement, a contract. The ideological contract for Judaism is, which is illustrated in the story of Job is: "Do what you are told, though it may be unfathomable and you may suffer, you will be rewarded with being right."

Jesus was a symbolic negation of the Big Other, when he was made to suffer and not rewarded, thus him saying "My God, why have you forsaken me?". At this moment, the message is to no longer look to the requirements of the Big Other, because it does not exist. Instead look to the needs of community, which is a heavy theme in Christianity and the distinguishing characteristic of early Christianity.

The narrator says in this way, the early Christian was more Atheist than the modern Atheist born the Atheism. If I remember correctly, he also says that a Christian become Atheist is more Atheist than a born Atheist. Being more Atheist meaning being more free from ideology. The reason is, if you are born to being Atheist, you may never have the experience of seeing and breaking out of an ideology.

Your god, your 'Big Other', would be something else that you may not be capable of recognizing and are blinded to by the gift of being right, a function of the contract of your born to ideology. A Christian become Atheist knows that moment upon where there is no thing, where individual choice is the the only god, with no promise of gift or reward.

The above is christian propaganda and is anti-semitic.

In fact ideology is -

1. predigested thought
2. serves interests
3. and has a demonology.

So christianity is an excellent example of an ideology.
 

Qlip

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The above is christian propaganda and is anti-semitic.

In fact ideology is -

1. predigested thought
2. serves interests
3. and has a demonology.

So christianity is an excellent example of an ideology.

Oh, Mole, you completely missed all of the points and didn't even get close to actually commenting on what was actually said.
 

Mole

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Oh, Mole, you completely missed all of the points and didn't even get close to actually commenting on what was actually said.

We live in different worlds. Your post is of interest to me in that it may spark a creative response. And indeed my response is the meaning of your post. So tirelessly accusing me of being off topic is tiresome.

Books have topics, in the electronic media everything is connected to everything else, and creativity is at a premium.

Those who are backward value control, and those who look forward value creativity.

I loathe control, whether it is USA foreign policy, or busybodies trying to control how I write and think.

But I love creativity.
 

Qlip

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We live in different worlds. Your post is of interest to me in that it may spark a creative response. And indeed my response is the meaning of your post. So tirelessly accusing me of being off topic is tiresome.

Books have topics, in the electronic media everything is connected to everything else, and creativity is at a premium.

Those who are backward value control, and those who look forward value creativity.

I loathe control, whether it is USA foreign policy, or busybodies trying to control how I write and think.

But I love creativity.

Dude, it's not about being off topic. It's about misrepresenting what I actually said for your own purposes, that is wrong and distasteful in any dialog. And even if creativity trumps being on topic, you had nothing particularly new to add to the dialog. It was just a your knee jerk reaction to isolated keywords.
 

Mole

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Dude, it's not about being off topic. It's about misrepresenting what I actually said for your own purposes, that is wrong and distasteful in any dialog. And even if creativity trumps being on topic, you had nothing particularly new to add to the dialog. It was just a your knee jerk reaction to isolated keywords.

My God, you want me to validate you.

Creativity requires no validation, creativity is self validating, creativity is self directing, creativity dances on its own two feet!
 

Kullervo

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This forms the basis of anti-semitism, for almost 2,000 years, right up to and including he holocaust, first Jesus destroys Judaic ideology, then the we destroy the Jews.

Actually comments that Jews are devils, betrayers, and should be killed are in the NT. And while it may come as a surprise to a liberal like you, contemporary Jewish scriptures have very similar injunctions about Christians.

Religion is an excellent way to get people to kill each other.
 

Mole

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Actually comments that Jews are devils, betrayers, and should be killed are in the NT. And while it may come as a surprise to a liberal like you, contemporary Jewish scriptures have very similar injunctions about Christians.

Religion is an excellent way to get people to kill each other.

For almost 2,000 years christians have regarded Jews as deicides. This has led to pogroms against the Jews and the holocaust.

I am unaware of any pogroms against christians by Jews, nor of a holocaust of christains by Jews.

I don't know why you would call me an American liberal. I am not an American and not an American liberal.
 

Kullervo

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For almost 2,000 years christians have regarded Jews as deicides. This has led to pogroms against the Jews and the holocaust.

I am unaware of any pogroms against christians by Jews, nor of a holocaust of christains by Jews.

I don't know why you would call me an American liberal. I am not an American and not an American liberal.

I know you are an Aussie bum :D

Jews adapted to live as a nomadic nation, similar to most ethnic groups in the Middle East. When you live as a minority among foreign nations, you clearly cannot commit genocide. I agree only Christians had the political power to make those decisions (though more recently the conflicts weren't about religion). However, that is not to say that you cannot hurt the host nation in many other ways if given injunctions. You should be aware of the Jewish involvement in communism for example...
 

Mole

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I know you are an Aussie bum

Please, please, please! First you call me an American liberal, now you call me an American bum. We don't have American bums in Australia, we have Australian swaggies.

Plainly you think Austalia is a little America.

And of course you believe unthinkingly in American Exceptionism, we don't.
 

Qlip

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Oh lord, why hast thou forsaken this thread? Is it because Mole stole the thorny crown once again?
 

Avocado

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Actually comments that Jews are devils, betrayers, and should be killed are in the NT. And while it may come as a surprise to a liberal like you, contemporary Jewish scriptures have very similar injunctions about Christians.

Religion is an excellent way to get people to kill each other.

Sadly, this is true. What is even sadder is that people will cling to their predigested notion of ''truth'' to their graves. We live in a technologically advanced world. It is time to put childish things such as religion aside before we seriously hurt ourselves.

The Abrahamic religions are some of the worst at wanting to hurt others.

This in no way disowns spirituality, though.
 
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