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  1. #111
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    One of my main difficulties with accepting Christianity as true comes from the fact that Christ presented himself as the son of Yahweh. Yahweh is not portrayed by the Bible as a pleasant person. He is portrayed as wrathful, mean-spirited, and genocidal. I don't know that I could sincerely love and worship such a being. Worse than that is the fact that several things are said of Yahweh that are difficult to reconcile with what we know about reality. We know that humans evolved from earlier lifeforms, not dust. We know that the universe is billions of years old, not 6,500. We know that women evolved alongside men and were not derived from men's rib bones. We also know that a global flood never occurred in the past 7,000 years. The Old Testament has numerous opportunities to demonstrate a supernatural insight into the world around us, and it repeatedly fails to do so. Instead it gives us an account of reality that looks like another collection of primitive myths.

    If Christ believed in this god, I find it hard to believe in Christ.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    One of my main difficulties with accepting Christianity as true comes from the fact that Christ presented himself as the son of Yahweh. Yahweh is not portrayed by the Bible as a pleasant person. He is portrayed as wrathful, mean-spirited, and genocidal. I don't know that I could sincerely love and worship such a being. Worse than that is the fact that several things are said of Yahweh that are difficult to reconcile with what we know about reality. We know that humans evolved from earlier lifeforms, not dust. We know that the universe is billions of years old, not 6,500. We know that women evolved alongside men and were not derived from men's rib bones. We also know that a global flood never occurred in the past 7,000 years. The Old Testament has numerous opportunities to demonstrate a supernatural insight into the world around us, and it repeatedly fails to do so. Instead it gives us an account of reality that looks like another collection of primitive myths.

    If Christ believed in this god, I find it hard to believe in Christ.
    Read the bible.

    God is love just as much as god is justice, and everything else that exists all at once.

    Ever hear of kharma? Yeah. that's god doing what he can't help but do. And since humans are inherently unholy pieces of garbage, direct contact would essentially mean humanity would be destroyed. So in more science fiction lingo, in order to harness the power of the universe without being destroyed, mankind must first redirect the target of its imperfection, aka Jesus being crucified.

    This is a gross generalization of what happened and terribly imperfect, but it should make things a little more clear for you.

  3. #113
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptoGypsy View Post
    Hi I'm seriously trying to consider the existence of God but it just doesn't seem plausible. What evidence do we have outside of the Bible or any Religious text that a God exists? How did you rationalize the existence of God? Is the only argument you have that a God exists is the leap of faith, is faith your only trump card?

    For all the non-believers out their what is your opinion on this Guy
    Yuriy and Inna | Welcome. Grow in Grace with us.
    He is a controversial christian figure in the Christian Russian social groups in the west of the U.S.A @Alea_iacta_est @chubber @digesthisickness @Evee @Halla74 @Hive @Honor @JAVO
    The abrahamic religions condemn themselves via the sea of contradictions and blantant affronts against reality. As far as gods in general are concerned, especially a diest god, they are unlikely, but not impossible like the christian, islamic, or jewish gods.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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  4. #114
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptoGypsy View Post
    I completely agree with you but as with my friend Yuriy a person can be a christian with out taking creationism, Jonah story etc as literal truth but the story of Jesus Christ is crazy, virgin birth (without God having sex with her unlike the Greek Myths) and resurrection unless you look at it as symbolism but then symbols are for the symbol minded. With that being said Christianity can be a great tool to reach people you wouldn't be able to reach otherwise especially in the U.S.A where the country claims to be 8?% Christian.
    Ypu sound like you would be interested in Unitarian Universalusm. It gives the church expirience without having to believe anything specific to join. You really just need a good heart, and it is a favorite church for Atheist Humanists.


    You'll find atheists, christians, muslims, buddhists, hindus, pagans, and wiccans all sitting together.

    Best thing is, most people I've asked about what they thought about the UU's think they are a ''cool'' religion.
    Enneagram: 6w7 (phobic) > 2w1 > 9w1
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    I say this as a reminder to myself, but this goes for everyone:

    You can achieve anything you set your mind to, and you are limited only by how dedicated you are to succeed!

    -Magic Qwan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Ypu sound like you would be interested in Unitarian Universalusm. It gives the church expirience without having to believe anything specific to join. You really just need a good heart, and it is a favorite church for Atheist Humanists.


    You'll find atheists, christians, muslims, buddhists, hindus, pagans, and wiccans all sitting together.

    Best thing is, most people I've asked about what they thought about the UU's think they are a ''cool'' religion.
    I think i see ENFPs doing that in general.

  6. #116
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    One of my main difficulties with accepting Christianity as true comes from the fact that Christ presented himself as the son of Yahweh. Yahweh is not portrayed by the Bible as a pleasant person. He is portrayed as wrathful, mean-spirited, and genocidal. I don't know that I could sincerely love and worship such a being. Worse than that is the fact that several things are said of Yahweh that are difficult to reconcile with what we know about reality. We know that humans evolved from earlier lifeforms, not dust. We know that the universe is billions of years old, not 6,500. We know that women evolved alongside men and were not derived from men's rib bones. We also know that a global flood never occurred in the past 7,000 years. The Old Testament has numerous opportunities to demonstrate a supernatural insight into the world around us, and it repeatedly fails to do so. Instead it gives us an account of reality that looks like another collection of primitive myths.

    If Christ believed in this god, I find it hard to believe in Christ.
    To first approximation, none of this has anything to do with God. It is the creation of man. That interpretation might be a bit simplistic, though. These statements obviously have no factual or literal validity, fundamentalists notwithstanding, but they do offer insight into how a particular people viewed God and spirituality. There is far more metaphorical truth in the Bible than literal, though many Christians eschew such distinctions as belittling or debunking. It is this metaphorical, or perhaps allegorical aspect that comes closer to the "supernatural insight" you mention.

    Bottom line: Christianity makes alot more sense if one recognizes it as a myth, not a factual, historical account. This makes it easier to see the commonalities with other myths and human symbols (back to Jung), and even to separate what is clearly human in these accounts from what just might be pointing at something truly divine.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #117
    AKA Nunki Polaris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Flame
    Read the bible.
    No way am I going to read the whole thing. I started reading it from the beginning, years ago, (this is on top of being exposed to parts of the Bible in church when I was a child) and gave up by the time I reached Exodus. For a perfect book, it's awfully dull reading (although to be fair, the Garden of Eden has rich symbolism and is my favorite myth).

    I've given Christianity more than one chance in my life. I was raised in a Christian household, and prescribed to the belief system until I was about 14, at which point the religion stopped ringing true to me. I tried Christianity again later on in life, and gave it up again, for the reasons I mentioned in this thread. There are aspects of the religion that I find very ugly, in particular the idea of eternal damnation. I'm far from being perfectly loving, but I would never dream of sending someone to hell. And the Old Testament god looks to me like a fairly run-of-the-mill mythological being, one deeply rooted in a specific culture at a specific time in history (to the Jews of that age, the idea of other cultures worshiping their god probably would have seemed as strange as the idea of a Mexican decorating his home with American flags). Today we understand that frogs do not rain from the sky, snakes do not talk, our earth goes around the sun, and human beings originated from earlier primates, not clay. If our understanding is wrong and the Old Testament god really exists, he is being extremely misleading. He has created a world that speaks against his existence. Why would he do that? It would lead countless souls to eternal damnation, with great effectiveness and to no good purpose. It's more appealing and more realistic to think that the Old Testament god was just invented by a primitive tribe. I don't know for sure whether he was or not, but the case in his favor is very weak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    These statements obviously have no factual or literal validity, fundamentalists notwithstanding, but they do offer insight into how a particular people viewed God and spirituality. There is far more metaphorical truth in the Bible than literal, though many Christians eschew such distinctions as belittling or debunking. It is this metaphorical, or perhaps allegorical aspect that comes closer to the "supernatural insight" you mention.

    Bottom line: Christianity makes alot more sense if one recognizes it as a myth, not a factual, historical account. This makes it easier to see the commonalities with other myths and human symbols (back to Jung), and even to separate what is clearly human in these accounts from what just might be pointing at something truly divine.
    Right, this is generally the way I prefer to view Christianity. I do think, though, that Genesis and stories like that were originally meant to be taken literally, and for the most part, always have been taken literally. Advancements in our knowledge of the world have to some extent forced people to either reject Scripture or search for symbolic truth in it. The view has been made to change from "these stories are true" to "these stories are illustrations," which I think is a fortunate evolution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    No way am I going to read the whole thing.
    Then by all means, please continue pulling bullshit out of your ass.

  9. #119
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaris View Post
    Right, this is generally the way I prefer to view Christianity. I do think, though, that Genesis and stories like that were originally meant to be taken literally, and for the most part, always have been taken literally. Advancements in our knowledge of the world have to some extent forced people to either reject Scripture or search for symbolic truth in it. The view has been made to change from "these stories are true" to "these stories are illustrations," which I think is a fortunate evolution.
    It comes down to what you consider truth. The old stories made sense at the time because, in the absence of scientific knowledge about natural phenomena, people attempted to explain them using spiritual knowledge. That knowledge may still be true in its own way, but can answer only spiritual questions. Another case of using the right tool for the job.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #120
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Everyone needs something to believe in so as not to self-destruct.
    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Everyone needs something to believe in so as to be able to keep on moving.
    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Right, but some beliefs are more harmful than others.
    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    It can be the same for every ideology including religion. It's due to people's lack of self-awareness, untamed fears and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I'm afraid your misunderstanding of God's covenant with mankind under the Old Testament vs. the New Testament is preventing you from seeing the truth.
    Also, do not forget that God's ways and means within, among and through people have always been, and will forever be confused for what they really are by people - because people are imperfect, and only capable of seeing to the extent of their own mortality, and often their own motivations and biases.
    God's work was documented in the Torah, The Old Testament, and The Koran - None of them speak to His power, grace and divinity as a being of love; that aspect of God is primarily known through the documented teachings through the life of Christ in The New Testament.
    Does this mean that only Christians have a monopoly on understanding what it means to believe in the one true God, a being of great love?
    No way.
    In my opinion. God is also perfectly integrated within all science - contrary to the beliefs of so many. He doesn't need to differentiate between faith and laws of the universe as we know it.
    That's my take.



    -Halla74
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