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If it Exists does That mean It is Natural?

Mal12345

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What does it mean for something to be natural? Does existing in nature entail that something is natural?
 
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WALMART

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[MENTION=9627]Chawie[/MENTION] showed me a logical proof recently that 'confirms' the existence of a supernatural realm

i am thinking it is a bit like Kant's noumenal realm, but I couldn't quite make out the final points, so i'm not sure

so far as i'm concerned - yes, existence is natural and nature is existence
 

Mal12345

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[MENTION=9627]Chawie[/MENTION] showed me a logical proof recently that 'confirms' the existence of a supernatural realm

i am thinking it is a bit like Kant's noumenal realm, but I couldn't quite make out the final points, so i'm not sure

so far as i'm concerned - yes, existence is natural and nature is existence

It IS a bit like Kant's noumenal realm, since he stole the idea from Swedenborg and then converted it into a transcendental idea versus Swedenborg's supernatural idea.

But I'm asking if everything is natural, including man-made things.
 
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Infinite Bubble

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Yeah, anything that exists is natural.

Although people commonly use it to describe something not caused/created by humans. I think maybe we subconsciously separate ourselves from everything else (nature). But that's an illusion.
 

Mal12345

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Yeah, anything that exists is natural.

Although people commonly use it to describe something not caused/created by humans. I think maybe we subconsciously separate ourselves from everything else (nature). But that's an illusion.

Consciously or subconsciously. Do you know what artificial selection is?
 

Typh0n

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I dont agree that everything that exists is natural, but how are we defining "natural" to begin with? I think people typically define "nature" as the things they take in through their senses, whereas the "supernatural" is what we dont perceive. People explain the universe in terms of root causes ie this causes that to happen. Theists typically posit that God is part of nature because he is the first cause. So when people speak of "natural" phenomena they mean stuff that has a cause to bring it into being. I personally beleive this applies only to the material/physical universe only - the universe is a series of cause and effect. But when you talk about the spiritual, Im not talking about ghosts and stuff like that but rather platonic forms which should exist - if you beleive they exist -in a non casual mode(ie they are eternal).
 
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WALMART

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But I'm asking if everything is natural, including man-made things.

if the universe is to be taken as a set, and all within no more than a subset, yes, all is natural

even man-made objects originate dependently from what precedes their creation

bacon said something like, "chance exists so far as the human will does"

and that is where the load-bearing wall lies, with this argument
 

King sns

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I guess natural just means the original substance... the reconstructed stuff can be unnatural though.
 

Mal12345

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if the universe is to be taken as a set, and all within no more than a subset, yes, all is natural

even man-made objects originate dependently from what precedes their creation

bacon said something like, "chance exists so far as the human will does"

and that is where the load-bearing wall lies, with this argument

What if no human will exists? Does chance then exist?
 

SpankyMcFly

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You're guys hair splitting over word definitions is entertaining.

:popc1:

What does it mean for something to be natural?

I'd say something free of intervention.

Does existing in nature entail that something is natural?

See above. A human could run an experiment on some mice and mutate some genes to run an experiment. These mice are not natural.
 

Tellenbach

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Natural diamonds vs synthetic or man-made diamonds. One exists in nature; the other is brought into existence by some intelligence. A human turd is considered natural because there's no intelligence behind its creation despite coming from an intelligent being. Modern corn is unnatural because it's created through artificial selection.
 
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