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The Intellectual Snobbery of Conspicuous Atheism

Southern Kross

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I agree that there's this whole atheist discourse out there that's condescending and obnoxious, especially on the internet - and I say this as an atheist (albeit an agnostic atheist).

I think there's little point arguing over the existence of god; people either believe or they don't. Some will try to rationalise their belief or lack thereof, but IMO this is merely an argument developed after the fact to justify their pre-existing, instinctive conclusion. Turning it into a debate over who is more rational is entirely missing the point; you might even say it's irrational.

I don't like anyone cramming their belief system down other people's throats and treating non-believers like inferior beings. And yes, atheism is also a belief system until the existence of god can be disproven beyond all doubt, which I can't see happening any time soon.

A lot of atheists out there need to STFU; sometimes I'm embarrassed to call myself one.
 

TreeBob

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I agree that there's this whole atheist discourse out there that's condescending and obnoxious, especially on the internet - and I say this as an atheist (albeit an agnostic atheist).

I think there's little point arguing over the existence of god; people either believe or they don't. Some will try to rationalise their belief or lack thereof, but IMO this is merely an argument developed after the fact to justify their pre-existing, instinctive conclusion. Turning it into a debate over who is more rational is entirely missing the point; you might even say it's irrational.

I don't like anyone cramming their belief system down other people's throats and treating non-believers like inferior beings. And yes, atheism is also a belief system until the existence of god can be disproven beyond all doubt, which I can't see happening any time soon.

A lot of atheists out there need to STFU; sometimes I'm embarrassed to call myself one.

I think your points above are valid, but if someone is fully atheist then they do not hold a belief system. I don't believe there is no god, there is no god. You may call it semantics, but I don't think about god or any other spiritual what ifs. I don't care to convert anyone to my line of thinking because it isn't a belief system to convert someone to. I suppose maybe there are some weird atheists who think of it like Buddhism as a way of life?

I BELIEVE that anyone who tries to shove religion or atheism down someone throat is a troll. I'm rambling...
 

meowington

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my 2 cents : I dislike militant atheïsm almost as much as militant religion.
 
W

WALMART

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Huh :mellow: now I'm curious to know what exactly you said. :alttongue:

Even if a supremely powerful being were to interject his existence, he would become a facet of that existence.

I owe a particular allegiance to nothing, and that is what agnosticism purportedly bulwarks against - the potential to recognize this figure in the universe. Atheism does not preclude the existence of this godly being, it precludes that this being's potential in the universe is of moral significance, that sovereignty is kept through revelations made. It is a philosophy that remains neutral to all forces playing the universe, while agnosticism remains in appeal.
 

Firebird 8118

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Even if a supremely powerful being were to interject his existence, he would become a facet of that existence.

I owe a particular allegiance to nothing, and that is what agnosticism purportedly bulwarks against - the potential to recognize this figure in the universe. Atheism does not preclude the existence of this godly being, it precludes that this being's potential in the universe is of moral significance, that sovereignty is kept through revelations made. It is a philosophy that remains neutral to all forces playing the universe, while agnosticism remains in appeal.

Ah, I see - thanks!
 

DiscoBiscuit

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because militant religion just tends to be even more in your face / obnoxious than militant atheism.

I'm of the opinion that its the person that determines the obnoxiousness not the ideology.

Assuming otherwise seems like a subtle attempt to malign one ideology, or more accurately those who subscribe to it.
 

meowington

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Assuming otherwise seems like a subtle attempt to malign one ideology, or more accurately those who subscribe to it.

Perhaps, yes, which is the entire point you are making in this thread. But I'm an atheist myself to begin with, so it's only natural to have even the slightest, subjective preference.
Generally, I think people should be ok with everyone else's personal outlook on life, if it's not obtrusive.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Perhaps, yes, which is the entire point you are making in this thread.

The popular narrative is that the religious are snarling inbred troglodytes, while athiests are intellectual academic darlings that just want whats best for everyone.

This thread was an effort to clarify that everyone's hands are dirty here.
 

EJCC

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Just wanted to pop in and say thanks for making this thread. Saw the article on Facebook a while ago, really liked it, and hoped that someone would bring it to TypeC.
 

Mole

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Generally, I think people should be ok with everyone else's personal outlook on life, if it's not obtrusive.

Some have a totalitarian outlook, some have an authoritarian outlook, some have a democratic outlook, some have an anarchist outlook, and some have a criminal outlook. Some have a paranoid outlook, some have a greedy outlook beyond the dreams of avarice, some have an anti-semitic outlook, some have a jihadi outlook, some have a violent outlook, some have a patriarchal outlook, some have a marxist outlook, and some have a feminist outlook, some have an authoritarian outlook towards child raising, and some have a helping outlook to child raising.

I hardly need point out that these outlooks are not mutually compatible.
 

grey_beard

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I think your points above are valid, but if someone is fully atheist then they do not hold a belief system. I don't believe there is no god, there is no god. You may call it semantics, but I don't think about god or any other spiritual what ifs. I don't care to convert anyone to my line of thinking because it isn't a belief system to convert someone to. I suppose maybe there are some weird atheists who think of it like Buddhism as a way of life?

I BELIEVE that anyone who tries to shove religion or atheism down someone throat is a troll. I'm rambling...
"I don't believe there is no god, there is no god."
If a believer were to make the analogous statement you'd laugh in their face.
If personal testimony is invalid, then that applies to yours: and your mere assertion that there is no god
is no more logically compelling than the believer's assertion.

The problem of course is one of axioms: one has no a priori knowledge of what a world with God "must" look like,
or what a world without God "must" look like.

So it comes down to various flavors of Pascal's wager and counter lemmas of differing multiplicity.

Unless one allows for the possibility that claims of divine revelation may be true: in which case, how to
distinguish true from false claims?

...and then it devolves into Flying Spaghetti Monster, showing the insufficiency of standard science and
the modern day drift into naturalistic metaphysics, to address these questions, because they deal with
the very philosophical assertions *behind* science.
 

Mole

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I like the sign I saw in the side of a bus which said, God probably doesn't exist, so we can relax and enjoy ourselves.
 

grey_beard

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I like the sign I saw in the side of a bus which said, God probably doesn't exist, so we can relax and enjoy ourselves.
Suggesting that atheism is based on immorality, or on fear. But perfect love casts out fear.

Ever notice that it's the atheists who talk about fear and Hell? The Christians are talking about loyalty to their God, and looking forward to being
fully reunited with Him.
 

Mole

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Suggesting that atheism is based on immorality, or on fear. But perfect love casts out fear.

Ever notice that it's the atheists who talk about fear and Hell? The Christians are talking about loyalty to their God, and looking forward to being
fully reunited with Him.

Au contraire, O bearded one, the Christians are constantly talking about their God, who was tortured to death by his Father, as a scapegoat for our sins.
 

grey_beard

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Oh contraire, O bearded one, the Christians are constantly talking about their God, who was tortured to death by his Father, as a scapegoat for our sins.
Yep. God's whipping boy (literally) so we can be restored to fellowship and SAVED from Hell, no longer having to fear it.

We're offered full amnesty in return for unconditional surrender.

But the atheists spook themselves anyway.
 

Mole

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Yep. God's whipping boy (literally) so we can be restored to fellowship and SAVED from Hell, no longer having to fear it.

We're offered full amnesty in return for unconditional surrender.

But the atheists spook themselves anyway.

Are you really prepared to allow a scapegoat to take away the responsibility for your sins?

Anyway scapegoating is an age-old superstition. Do you really believe scapegoating actually works?
 
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