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The GOD Thread~

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Okay, the temp ban betting pool is open. The odds on temp bans stemming from this thread:

0 bans: 5/1
1 ban: 3/2
2 bans: 5/4
3+ bans: 15/1
 

á´…eparted

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My friend, why do you infer that I would in any way imply you cannot choose to live how you want to, and choose to?

I am interested in origins of causality, and how that lines out with God's Word and Divine Will. I will always seek to know the Truth. Knowing the Truth, and encouraging others to know and seek the Truth doesn't have anything to do with how each of us manifests our life, and how we live.

The Truth about homosexuality, and hypersexuality, and asexuality seems to point in the direction of nurture, not nature. But that does not mean one cannot choose to live how one decides to. As I said God is COMPLETELY TOLERANT OF OUR CHOICES. Jesus is too. They are both gentlemen. That does not mean that you won't face Him someday and have to explain your choices, but if He allows you to choose, who are mere humans to tell you that you cannot?

Having said that, Christians have a responsibility to 'rebuke' their brethren when they see them committing sin (as homosexuality and sexual immorality is sin), but then to step back and leave them alone.

I think you most definitely have a sound basis for your desire to bond with men to stem from your lack of bonding with a consistent male role model, especially in your formative years. Playing with certain toys makes little difference ultimately in one's psychosocial and sexual well-being. A boy can love pink, love dress-up, love his fingernails painted, love girl toys, but still turn out being a boy, and able to love the woman God made for him.


God is irrelavant here. You can't prove he exists. You say he does, so you have the burden of proof. Until you can prove his exsistance, then I have no reason whatsoever to take your assertions that "he" is what sets the morality of permissiveness of any of this seriously.

You may step back, but your unsupported beliefs still influence the world, and it effects public opinion on these matters. As I said, this shouldn't matter. It in no way effects you, and you shouldn't care about this. Your morality views on sexuality are not based off a fact or common societal stance.

So you think my lack of bonding with my father (which isn't true btw; I did bond with him), is the reason for me being gay? I can tell you that very likely is not true based on the experiences I have had in my life. Even then though. Does it matter? No.

Playing with certain toys of having social prefrences can show different prefrences later in life, is what I am getting at.
 

Azure Flame

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hmm. yes I do see an article. My mistake.

There are a lot of gays who would do anything to rationalize their status, including making self fulfilling prophecy science experiments.

"I CAN'T BE GAY BECAUSE I CHOSE TO, I JUST CAN'T! THERE IS SOMETHING IN MY GENES THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME BEING ABUSED AS A CHILD OR GETTING DUMPED IN 7TH GRADE!"

Anyone can justify something for themselves if they look hard enough.

I will spend 5 more minutes analyzing this article to see if anything useful comes out of it.
 

Azure Flame

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Yeah this article says "there may be a gene that determines sexual orientation."

That does not mean they have found the gene(s) responsible for sexual orientation. I call bs on this article.

at least two chromosomes may affect a man’s sexual orientation.

The end.
 
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There are a lot of gays who would do anything to rationalize their status, including making self fulfilling prophecy science experiments.

"I CAN'T BE GAY BECAUSE I CHOSE TO, I JUST CAN'T! THERE IS SOMETHING IN MY GENES THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME BEING ABUSED AS A CHILD OR GETTING DUMPED IN 7TH GRADE!"

Anyone can justify something for themselves if they look hard enough.

Gee, considering the last ten minutes I'd think you'd have more sympathy for people who scream things at the top of their lungs and turn out to be wrong.
 

á´…eparted

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hmm. yes I do see an article. My mistake.

There are a lot of gays who would do anything to rationalize their status, including making self fulfilling prophecy science experiments.

"I CAN'T BE GAY BECAUSE I CHOSE TO, I JUST CAN'T! THERE IS SOMETHING IN MY GENES THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME BEING ABUSED AS A CHILD OR GETTING DUMPED IN 7TH GRADE!"

Anyone can justify something for themselves if they look hard enough.

I will spend 5 more minutes analyzing this article to see if anything useful comes out of it.

We all make mistakes, no worries.

At the end of the day though, being gay is not a problem. The only problems are those who disagree with homosexuality for whatever reason. Up to this point, there are also no credible studies out there that shows homosexuality can be changed. Though I will admit there is likely a significant minority of folks who might appear to change; sexuality is quite complex. It's more that the realize different aspects of themselves. And I'll say it again, does it matter what ones sexuality is? nope.
 

á´…eparted

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Yeah this article says "there may be a gene that determines sexual orientation."

That does not mean they have found the gene(s) responsible for sexual orientation. I call bs on this article.



The end.


I wouldn't go insofar as to call it BS. I have been rather annoyed with the media with saying "there's a link found! there is a gay gene!". The former appears to be true; yes, the did find a genetic common ground that appears to be unique for gay men. Does it mean it is a gay gene? Hardly. It's a lead though, and it requires more scientific inquiry. It could be a dead end, it could lead to something else. We'll know more when more research is done.

Still though, it is intriuging, and suggests there might be a genetic portion to sexulity.
 

Beorn

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You'll only drive yourself crazy trying to make rational sense of this position. This is the same person that spent an entire thread accusing the Freemasons of orchestrating mass child abuse and then asserted that the lack of evidence or chatter about it was even more damning than if there were evidence because it showed the capability of the Freemasons to cover it up.


fair enough. I'll stop.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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I wouldn't go insofar as to call it BS. I have been rather annoyed with the media with saying "there's a link found! there is a gay gene!". The former appears to be true; yes, the did find a genetic common ground that appears to be unique for gay men. Does it mean it is a gay gene? Hardly. It's a lead though, and it requires more scientific inquiry. It could be a dead end, it could lead to something else. We'll know more when more research is done.

Still though, it is intriuging, and suggests there might be a genetic portion to sexulity.

It might just mean that there is an area in the brain of those people that needs a strong attachment to a person of the same gender. i.e. those people are affected MORE not having that nurturing same-sex parent relationship than others. And so if that attachment does not come from the father or consistent male role model, then those people are going to be more likely to feel driven to get that need met in a sexual loving way. Whereas another male (or female) who didn't bond, and who doesn't have that area activated in the brain, is able to go on without intensely desiring a relationship with a person of the same gender.
 

Azure Flame

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Unfortunately I don't have time to go back to the beginning of the thread, but it sounds like AphroditeGoneAwry is using the bible as the basis of her argument, and in that she will only continue to make a fool of herself against people outside the loop of recursive logic.

I have debated luciferians and satanists. While the concept of being a satanist is quite hilarious in itself, its a devils advocate position against the bible and a worthy position to take if you want to disprove its logic. In the end, you can't. Both lucifer and jesus are referred to as the "morning star" (the highest ranking individual in heaven) and both sides are equally valid in their own right.

From an atheist point of view, you cannot disprove the existence of god. You cannot prove it either. In the end, you are only left with choice, and following the message of love that Jesus wanted to spread.

The self is an illusion. We must come to terms with the evil in ourselves, something that the bible, and carl jung, both talk about. "Jesus loves you even though you are a sinner!"

Assuming all religions are correct, it could still be inferred that reincarnation does in fact exist and is a real issue. So many religions believe in it. So many civilizations speak about a great flood. So many religions talk about how to ESCAPE the cycle of rebirth... even enneagram.

So when you have all of these religions talking about the same thing, there could be several options left on the table. Man creates these in our head, or they existed and man discovered them. With that being said, one has to ask, "why should I choose christianity over other religions?"

Because christianity is a one way ticket out of the cycle of rebirth. It does not talk about rebirth, nor does it matter, nor should we care. Follow what jesus taught us, and you will find salvation. Hell is ill defined in the bible, often spoken of as a "gnashing of teeth" or a "lake of fire." Personally, I experience feelings of sadistic gnashing of teeth any time I start getting insanely angry. But that's just me. When my Enneagram 6 friend's car broke down, I empathized with him and saw life through his eyes, a great dread that no one cared about him or would come to help him in his time of crisis, and in my mind the trees were glowing orange from the light of fire I could not see. I saw what I saw but it was all in my imagination, I knew it wasn't my own vision, but his.

I don't claim to understand the whole situation, just that I know what sin is and is not. Sin as far as I can tell is an act based on impulsive desires of the flesh that deteriorates our spirit, or our psychological health. Avoiding it is something you should WANT to do. You should stop spending money at strip clubs and hookers. That's a quick fix to loneliness. People should stop abusing drugs. That's a quick fix to your own control over your life and your own boredom, and it destroys your body and mind. We should want to experience the world, not cheat and take shortcuts to find happiness.

My personal view on homosexuality is that, like all other forms of sin, homosexuals choose to not hold faith in god's love, and thus seek it in ways that they can artificually create. When man seeks to empower himself without god, he turns to sin. When man seeks to empower himself through a force more powerful than himself, he turns away from sin and seeks the holy spirit. Only with love can a man bring another man out of his own self made hell.

"Desire leads to suffering. Eliminate desire. Follow the eight-fold path." ~ Buddhism, speaking about its own analogous definition of sin, albeit without calling upon the holy spirit. I know a buddhist and I would not say he is a happy person, but then again he isn't the strongest buddhist either, so its hard to say if buddhism really has any more or less benefit than christianity with regard to elimination of suffering in our lives.
 

Cygnus

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"I CAN'T BE GAY BECAUSE I CHOSE TO, I JUST CAN'T! THERE IS SOMETHING IN MY GENES THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME BEING ABUSED AS A CHILD OR GETTING DUMPED IN 7TH GRADE!"

Whoa, that escalated quickly. Apparently getting dumped by a 7th-grade placebo mate is just as bad as being sexually violated, very painfully, probably when you were barely young enough to remember.
 

á´…eparted

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It might just mean that there is an area in the brain of those people that needs a strong attachment to a person of the same gender. i.e. those people are affected MORE not having that nurturing same-sex parent relationship than others. And so if that attachment does not come from the father or consistent male role model, then those people are going to be more likely to feel driven to get that need met in a sexual loving way. Whereas another male (or female) who didn't bond, and who doesn't have that area activated in the brain, is able to go on without intensely desiring a relationship with a person of the same gender.

How does this study suggest there is an area of the brain regarding? Even if there is, that's a non-sequitur and a big one at that.

What you are suggesting is nothing more than speculation with little ground to support it.

My degree is not in psychology so I would be poor at picking this apart. Though I do know several hear have their degree in it, and thus if you are out there correct me if I am wrong. What you seem to say though seems like old-school psych doctrine that has been discredited base off more modern research.
 

Coriolis

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Also, look at how many people are disagreeing with you. That should say something, eh?
Truth by majority rule? I agree with you on this thread, but not with this statement. Quite often it is the minority, even a small minority, that is right.

Science IS working on proving it. In fact, they just recently published a study showing a genetic commonality between gay men. Evidence! It works! So, yet again, you're wrong. And again, DOES IT MATTER? Does it matter what causes it? It doesn't change a goddam thing. Sexuality is really really really complex. How it manifests, is meaningless.
I have read studies on brain physiology, specifically looking at the parts of the brain involved in sexual attraction. In gay men, these areas look more like women's brains than straight mens'. Similarly, in lesbians they look more like men's brains than straight womens'. So the difference is definitely physiological.

I hope everyone is having a holy Sabbath and is honoring God today.

Shalom!
I did. I visited a local Hindu temple. It was very different, beautiful, and meaningful.

Om shanti shanti shanti!
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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My point is that having a link between gay men (or women) does not likely mean they were born being gay. Though it does mean that switch is probably more likely to be flipped with the 'right' or wrong, environment.

Meaning, some men need to bond more than others with their male counterparts. If those guys don't have a male role model or loving figure, it makes sense that they will be more likely to need to seek it out.
 
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