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The good life and man's relation to society

SolitaryWalker

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Axiom: It is a truism that all people want to be happy.

Definition: Happines is to be defined as a state of prolonged positive emotion.

Question: How is happiness to be achieved.

Hypothesis: Through acquisition of inner peace. We are more likely to remain happy if we maintain emotional composure. It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently. In the end we want to be in control over our emotions in order to keep the peace. If we are in control, it will be easier for us to elect how our inner world shall be maintained. In order to acquire such a control, man must be moderate in his passions.

This is the doctrine famously championed by Aristotle earlier concerning the necessity of moderation. The more man focuses on dispassionate contemplation, the easier it will be for him to avoid strong emotions simply because he shall not focus on them at great length. He shall come to terms with his emotions by dispassionately analyzing them. Once they have been understood, they shall cease to have a force which could disturb his dispassionate contemplation and quest for emotional equillibrium.

This is how man is to find peace in his inner life. The outer life, however, may prevent him from achieving this, as if there is not an orderly environment around him, he may not be in the position to pursue inner growth. An Ideal society need not necessarily be comprised of deep thinkers, but of individuals who prefer to handle things in a dispassionate way. Akin to what we may call individuals with a Thinking preferrence who use this faculty well habitually. Feelers are undesirable because their relationship to emotion is analogous to that of a magnet to metal. They shall spark passions in all of us rendering emotional equillibrium close to impossible.
 

Night

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Axiom: It is a truism that all people want to be happy.

Definition: Happines is to be defined as a state of prolonged positive emotion.

Question: How is happiness to be achieved.

Hypothesis: Through acquisition of inner peace. We are more likely to remain happy if we maintain emotional composure. It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently. In the end we want to be in control over our emotions in order to keep the peace. If we are in control, it will be easier for us to elect how our inner world shall be maintained. In order to acquire such a control, man must be moderate in his passions.

Why do we presume that Aristotle achieved this "ideal" state of happiness? Or that he necessarily found inner peace?

Vision and tranquility are incidental terms. Neither presupposes the other.
Happiness isn't a theoretical framework. Its anatomy is intimate to the user and is not a term we can objectively consider.

As a rose to one, a thorn to another...

This is the doctrine famously championed by Aristotle earlier concerning the necessity of moderation. The more man focuses on dispassionate contemplation, the easier it will be for him to avoid strong emotions simply because he shall not focus on them at great length. He shall come to terms with his emotions by dispassionately analyzing them. Once they have been understood, they shall cease to have a force which could disturb his dispassionate contemplation and quest for emotional equillibrium.

Dispassion? Emotional moderation and dispassion are entirely different systems.

Dispassion is clinical. It focuses on the empirical chips available with one's substrate. Dispassionate evaluation is an appropriate technique when one wants to diagnose and diagram for later utility. Distance from one's subject is critical.

Emotional moderation is an awareness of range; of determinable scale - while still imbibing the element one seeks to control. Dispassionate analysis disavows this connection. As (most) humans have indelible emotional imprints, our well-being depends on our felicity with emotion, as a language and as a lifestyle.

This is how man is to find peace in his inner life. The outer life, however, may prevent him from achieving this, as if there is not an orderly environment around him, he may not be in the position to pursue inner growth. An Ideal society need not necessarily be comprised of deep thinkers, but of individuals who prefer to handle things in a dispassionate way. Akin to what we may call individuals with a Thinking preferrence who use this faculty well habitually. Feelers are undesirable because their relationship to emotion is analogous to that of a magnet to metal. They shall spark passions in all of us rendering emotional equillibrium close to impossible.

You conclusion is problematically linear.

If man wants peace, he will dispassionately analyze emotion. In doing this, emotion will cease to master his thinking.

Peace isn't a term of absolute precision; one is not able to algorithmically model himself against someone else to find it.

Peace is then an application of relativity - what makes me happy? What must I do to feel psychological serenity?



If dispassionate critique is what you consider the most viable route towards self-enlightenment, I'd encourage you to follow it to satisfaction.

Expecting others to silhouette your pattern of behavior is an unrealistic basis from which to develop your sense of well-being.
 

SolitaryWalker

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Why do we presume that Aristotle achieved this "ideal" state of happiness? Or that he necessarily found inner peace?

Vision and tranquility are incidental terms. Neither presupposes the other.
Happiness isn't a theoretical framework. Its anatomy is intimate to the user and is not a term we can objectively consider.

As a rose to one, a thorn to another...



Dispassion? Emotional moderation and dispassion are entirely different systems.

Dispassion is clinical. It focuses on the empirical chips available with one's substrate. Dispassionate evaluation is an appropriate technique when one wants to diagnose and diagram for later utility.

Emotional moderation is an awareness of range; of determinable scale - while still imbibing the element one seeks to control. Dispassionate analysis disavows this connection. As (most) humans have indelible emotional imprints, our well-being depends on our felicity with emotion, as a language and as a lifestyle.



You conclusion is problematically linear.

If man wants peace, he will dispassionately analyze emotion. In doing this, emotion will cease to master his thinking.

Peace isn't a term of absolute precision; one is not able to algorithmically model himself against someone else to find it.

Peace is then an application of relativity - what makes me happy? What must I do to feel psychological serenity?



If dispassionate critique is what you consider the most viable route towards self-enlightenment, I'd encourage you to follow it to satisfaction.

Expecting others to silhouette your pattern of behavior is an unrealistic basis from which to develop your sense of well-being.

Vision and tranquility are related, not incidental.
In order for you to have a vision, you must retire to your imagination which requires contemplation. Tranquility is best achieved in an obviously calm and contemplative environment as we are less interfered with there.

I am using the term peace in a very colloquial fashion. A simple lack of disturbance, a feeling of calm.


Emotional moderation is an awareness of range; of determinable scale - while still imbibing the element one seeks to control. Dispassionate analysis disavows this connection. As (most) humans have indelible emotional imprints, our well-being depends on our felicity with emotion, as a language and as a lifestyle. .


I do not insinuate to do away with all emotion, but merely keep it on low content. If we devote our lives to dispassionate analysis, we will never become emotionless, but our emotions shall be subordinate to our thinking rather than vice versa. Our passions that we do not understand will not be calling the shots in how we are to live our lives, but by contrast, we will be able to elect exactly how we are to proceed.
 

Xander

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After having argued about this with a certain T-F pairing, apparently not all people want for moderate excitement for long term happiness. Some, it seems, would rather have their socks knocked off once in a while than consistently have a smirk upon their lips.

I can see that as being quite logical. Imagine that you lived in the arctic, a warm day like those found on a beach somewhere closer to the equator would feel lovely and warm. However after a while you would adjust to it and any decrease in that would feel cold yet still be warmer than what you had before. Ergo if you attempt to be satisfied with life then surely the aim is not to be consistently mildly happy but more to attempt to reduce the fall in happiness where possible to a minimum and hence, effectively, raise the average happiness level to one which gives satisfaction and contenment in the larger overview.
 

cafe

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I prefer a mostly tranquil life, myself, but I've come to understand that not everyone wants to live that way. For the folks who need more of a rush, living a life like the one I enjoy would be a slow painful death. The important thing for me to realize is that steering them towards a life that reflects my ideal is a waste of my time and a disservice to the person I'm doing it to. I have to keep reminding myself of that because, though I'm trying to accept it, it's impossible for me to get my head around wanting to live that way.
 

disregard

mrs
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Axiom: It is a truism that all people want to be happy.

Definition: Happines is to be defined as a state of prolonged positive emotion.

Question: How is happiness to be achieved.

Hypothesis: Through acquisition of inner peace. We are more likely to remain happy if we maintain emotional composure. It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently. In the end we want to be in control over our emotions in order to keep the peace. If we are in control, it will be easier for us to elect how our inner world shall be maintained. In order to acquire such a control, man must be moderate in his passions.

This is the doctrine famously championed by Aristotle earlier concerning the necessity of moderation. The more man focuses on dispassionate contemplation, the easier it will be for him to avoid strong emotions simply because he shall not focus on them at great length. He shall come to terms with his emotions by dispassionately analyzing them. Once they have been understood, they shall cease to have a force which could disturb his dispassionate contemplation and quest for emotional equillibrium.

This is how man is to find peace in his inner life. The outer life, however, may prevent him from achieving this, as if there is not an orderly environment around him, he may not be in the position to pursue inner growth. An Ideal society need not necessarily be comprised of deep thinkers, but of individuals who prefer to handle things in a dispassionate way. Akin to what we may call individuals with a Thinking preferrence who use this faculty well habitually. Feelers are undesirable because their relationship to emotion is analogous to that of a magnet to metal. They shall spark passions in all of us rendering emotional equillibrium close to impossible.

Not being aware of one's happiness (and thus, not even being "happy") is, paradoxically, an even greater state of bliss, as the ego has retreated to its quarters, and the body, spirit, whathaveyou is free to take in the pleasures life offers in abundance without the taxing over-the-shoulder analysations of the restless mind.

This control of which you speak is less of a "control" than a detachment. A detachment from an identity.. One should never deny the existence (or experience) of one's passions, emotions, etc.. but rather, come to the realisation that the strain accompanied by such emotions is merely a consequence of identifying with one's ego so absolutely, as if your identity were truly you.. when it is actually a product of the Mind.

Do not seek emotional equilibrium! No! That would be to suppress; suppression goes against nature, and nature always wins. No.. seek to always understand that your emotions are the product of a Mind.. an Identity... an Ego... and then! Then your sadness, your happiness, your every state.. is not truly yours. It's all the doing of your mind. You do not have to be so thoroughly invested in it.

And so.. always be an observer of your emotions, your reactions.. Do not seek to interfere! For the acknowledgement of them being simply the consequence of an emotional climate, which is ever-changing, is enough! That is enough. Intellectual detachment, not forceful denial of the emotions.
 

Ilah

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I view happiness as fitting into one of two categories: superficial happiness and deep happiness. Superficial happiness is the temporary pleasure we experience from things like eating a favorite food, reading something funny, watching a movie and buying something nice for yourself.

Deep happiness is found by following your hearts desire. I have also heard this reffered to as "following your bliss" and "true happiness" and "your calling." It is about what gives our life not just pleasure but a sense of purpose, completeness, satisfaction. It is not hedonistic and it is not fleeting. Some find it in intellectional pursuits. Some find it in music or art or crafts. Some find it in religion or spirituality. Some find it in physcial activity. The possiblities are endless.

I believe it is deep happiness that BlueWing is referring to. That is one path and it leads to deep happiness for some, but it is not the path for everyone.

I imagine there is some type difference in what people find deep happiness in. I have read that introverts tend to prefer harmony and inner peace where extroverts tend to prefer excitiment and adrenaline.

Ilah
 

SolitaryWalker

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It is true that some people may say they'd rather have one day of great excitement and a day of misery, and so on alternating. I do not think that this kind of a lifestyle will lead them to a point where on their deathbed they could say 'this was a life well lived' or 'I had a happy life'. A person with such an inconsistent lifestyle will not have a solid core, will not know who he/she is. We are shaped by our activities. If they are not consistent we will inevitably be everywhere and nowhere. I think there is nothing worse than in your final years to be forced into a realization you wasted your life on frivolous adventures and you do not even know who you are. Not that the emperor has no clothes, the clothes have no emperor.
 

Little Linguist

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Axiom: It is a truism that all people want to be happy.

Definition: Happines is to be defined as a state of prolonged positive emotion.

Question: How is happiness to be achieved.

Hypothesis: Through acquisition of inner peace. We are more likely to remain happy if we maintain emotional composure. It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently. In the end we want to be in control over our emotions in order to keep the peace. If we are in control, it will be easier for us to elect how our inner world shall be maintained. In order to acquire such a control, man must be moderate in his passions.

This is the doctrine famously championed by Aristotle earlier concerning the necessity of moderation. The more man focuses on dispassionate contemplation, the easier it will be for him to avoid strong emotions simply because he shall not focus on them at great length. He shall come to terms with his emotions by dispassionately analyzing them. Once they have been understood, they shall cease to have a force which could disturb his dispassionate contemplation and quest for emotional equillibrium.

This is how man is to find peace in his inner life. The outer life, however, may prevent him from achieving this, as if there is not an orderly environment around him, he may not be in the position to pursue inner growth. An Ideal society need not necessarily be comprised of deep thinkers, but of individuals who prefer to handle things in a dispassionate way. Akin to what we may call individuals with a Thinking preferrence who use this faculty well habitually. Feelers are undesirable because their relationship to emotion is analogous to that of a magnet to metal. They shall spark passions in all of us rendering emotional equillibrium close to impossible.

Please define "emotional composure."
 

cafe

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It is true that some people may say they'd rather have one day of great excitement and a day of misery, and so on alternating. I do not think that this kind of a lifestyle will lead them to a point where on their deathbed they could say 'this was a life well lived' or 'I had a happy life'. A person with such an inconsistent lifestyle will not have a solid core, will not know who he/she is. We are shaped by our activities. If they are not consistent we will inevitably be everywhere and nowhere. I think there is nothing worse than in your final years to be forced into a realization you wasted your life on frivolous adventures and you do not even know who you are. Not that the emperor has no clothes, the clothes have no emperor.
I don't agree. I know I'd rather have a quiet, consistent life myself, but I've known people, probably ESPs, who are not really hurt by bad experiences in a lasting way like I would be. They are resilient and live in the moment. They revel in the experiences they've had, both good and bad and don't really seem to have a lot of regret, even in their later years. It's as if they are legends in their own minds. My life, which is more that of an observer, would be an empty, wasted life for someone like that and they would likely deeply regret it. There would be nothing worse for them than to realize they'd lived life on the sidelines, never experiencing it in it's fullness.

People who are different aren't broken people that would be like us if only they could be fixed. They are actually really different at their core. Life is not One Size Fits All.
 

gokartride

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I would submit a thought for further consideration.....that contemplation is not what gives us peace. Contemplation is of value only because it helps connect us to "what is." Connection to this is what gives us peace. In this manner, we do not face the world alone....we are in a partnership with the divine. To me this works even outside a state of inner composure which, humanly speaking, is generally pretty frail.

I have had the pleasure of knowing some people who had true inner peace...they exuded it. But, it was not something they posessed...in fact if you were to question them on this they would smile and disavow any higher knowledge or state of being. In fact, they were even more aware of their inner limitations, short-sightedness, and failings (although these were not readily apparent to me or others). This, however, didn't matter....the connection was all that did. And this connection was present in their meditation as much as it was out in the noisy streets, and some of these were really noisy!! It's a mystery and an interesting phenomenon to see in people who don't just theorize about inner peace, but live it as a matter of practical experience.

I have run across this in may types of spirituality, too. My familiarity is more within Christian mysticism where connection to God goes beyond the mere word to "what truly is." Other spiritual traditions use different terms and methods of discribing this reality, but the essential concept seems quite similar. This makes me wonder if it is part of some more global concept/truth.

Connection to something divine....within us and without us and filling all things...yet personal, loving, and benevolent....this is the path on which people I know of seem to find true peace. It is, though, a hard place for the egotistical and proud to trod because often the peace we seek to possess in the end possesses/captivates us. We merely bask in it's life-giving glow.



Sheesh....I don't believe it!!! That was the first time I ever used "trod" in a sentence!!!:party2:
 

SolitaryWalker

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I don't agree. I know I'd rather have a quiet, consistent life myself, but I've known people, probably ESPs, who are not really hurt by bad experiences in a lasting way like I would be. They are resilient and live in the moment. They revel in the experiences they've had, both good and bad and don't really seem to have a lot of regret, even in their later years. It's as if they are legends in their own minds. My life, which is more that of an observer, would be an empty, wasted life for someone like that and they would likely deeply regret it. There would be nothing worse for them than to realize they'd lived life on the sidelines, never experiencing it in it's fullness.

People who are different aren't broken people that would be like us if only they could be fixed. They are actually really different at their core. Life is not One Size Fits All.

ESPs have an inner being too, just like you and I. What you say of them is true because they are able to avoid paying attention to their inner life. This doesnt change the fact that they've spoiled it. They can't run from their problems all life long, soon enough they will have to own up to all the stupidies they put themselves and others through.

In short, we all have an inner being to take care of, only so long you can run from yourself for. The core of the ESP is not Se, but Fi/Ti.(This is the case because introverted functions define who we are. It is what we make of our experiences that is the deciding factor, not what experiences we have. For example, a hypnotized person could experience walking a tight-rope with no recollection. The pure experience as such will hardly affect his life. Yet if I were to consciously walk a tight rope, it may have profound implications on my further psychological development.) By assuming vice versa they run into the 'clothes have no emperor' problem.
 

Mole

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The Supernatural

Sheesh....I don't believe it!!! That's the first time I ever used "trod" in a sentence!!!

I am thinking of treading a different path. I am thinking of leaving the supernatural behind. I will only be able to see it in the rear vision mirror, as I speed forward into the future, .

The rear vision mirror is a bit like magic as we can see the past just as we look into the future through the windscreen.

But the supernatural is quite like magic. But it is starting to look threadbare. I am starting to see how the trick is done. I am even thinking of performing magic myself. So I think it is time to get out. I should get out at the top because from here on in, it will be all downhill.

I can retire from the supernatural with honour - I am no longer seduced - and I have seduced no one.

Of course I will miss the supernatural for it has kept me company most of my life. Am I ungrateful? Well, I am ambivalent - I am grateful but I want to get out before I turn sour. It is a bit like a marriage coming to an end - I want an amicable settlement not a bitter divorce.

And the advantage of leaving the supernatural behind is that I am open to the new - I am open to me - and I am open to you.
 

cafe

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ESPs have an inner being too, just like you and I. What you say of them is true because they are able to avoid paying attention to their inner life. This doesnt change the fact that they've spoiled it. They can't run from their problems all life long, soon enough they will have to own up to all the stupidies they put themselves and others through.

In short, we all have an inner being to take care of, only so long you can run from yourself for. The core of the ESP is not Se, but Fi/Ti.(This is the case because introverted functions define who we are. It is what we make of our experiences that is the deciding factor, not what experiences we have. For example, a hypnotized person could experience walking a tight-rope with no recollection. The pure experience as such will hardly affect his life. Yet if I were to consciously walk a tight rope, it may have profound implications on my further psychological development.) By assuming vice versa they run into the 'clothes have no emperor' problem.
You would think that, but from what I've seen they can live in the moment their whole lives long, only introspecting when they are in a bind and only until they get out, and die of old age with (maybe) a deathbed conversion and little regret. IOW, what you are saying makes sense *to me* and I'd be inclined to agree if I hadn't seen so much evidence to the contrary.
 

JAVO

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It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently.

You have not supplied any evidence to support this assertion.
 

heart

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I am thinking of treading a different path. I am thinking of leaving the supernatural behind. I will only be able to see it in the rear vision mirror, as I speed forward into the future, .

The rear vision mirror is a bit like magic as we can see the past just as we look into the future through the windscreen.

But the supernatural is quite like magic. But it is starting to look threadbare. I am starting to see how the trick is done. I am even thinking of performing magic myself. So I think it is time to get out. I should get out at the top because from here on in, it will be all downhill.

I can retire from the supernatural with honour - I am no longer seduced - and I have seduced no one.

Of course I will miss the supernatural for it has kept me company most of my life. Am I ungrateful? Well, I am ambivalent - I am grateful but I want to get out before I turn sour. It is a bit like a marriage coming to an end - I want an amicable settlement not a bitter divorce.

And the advantage of leaving the supernatural behind is that I am open to the new - I am open to me - and I am open to you.

Do you mean like the supersensual? Your inner world? Or do you mean supernautural: Channeling spirits or astral type experiences? :huh:
 
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