The good life and man's relation to society

[gokartride]

The rear vision mirror is a bit like magic as we can see the past just as we look into the future through the windscreen.

If I understand your meaning, this does make sense. There are many things we treasure, value, and spend significant time with. However there is a time...once ample preparation is made (and sometimes without), to "put it in gear" and go with it. We may have all the right tools....now let's build something fantastic!!

 

[SolitaryWalker]

You would think that, but from what I've seen they can live in the moment their whole lives long, only introspecting when they are in a bind and only until they get out, and die of old age with (maybe) a deathbed conversion and little regret. IOW, what you are saying makes sense *to me* and I'd be inclined to agree if I hadn't seen so much evidence to the contrary.

They probably had more regrets than they let know. Wouldnt share it with anyone but their intimates.

 

[cafe]

They probably had more regrets than they let know. Wouldnt share it with anyone but their intimates.

Do you have any evidence of this or are you just projecting?

 

[colmena]

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Do you have any evidence of this or are you just projecting?

Empirical evidence, no. Though some good reasons to believe this.

Extroverted Sensors are primarily concerned with interacting with their concrete environment. (All perception is concerned with the environment. Introverted perceivers tend to take their environment very seriously, which is why they tend to watch out for all things that could harm them. Very security conscious. This is because their approach to the environment is introverted and therefore shapes their inner identity.)

The extroverted perceiver is the opposite of this. His approach to the environment tends to be jovial and light-hearted. As if it is a never-ending party. This is the attitude the ESP carries on in public most of the time, if not always. Even more so than the Extroverted Intuitive because his concreteness makes him more in tune with the external world (as the outer world is obviously physical and concrete). The Extroverted Intuitive's abstract nature forces him to retire to his mind slightly despite the Extroversion.

Lets now discuss the nature of the ESP's relationships. Because the ESP interacts with the external environment fluently, he easily makes acquaintances. Since these relationships are not profound and are but part of his interaction with the external environment, they do not get to know the inner life of the ESP. They only see his jovial attitude, his public facade. Yet the ESP is an Introverted Judging type. This means that there is an intense focus on the narrow circle of associates. These people tend to be those they are intimate with. They tend to be few in numbers and are the ones that the ESP need not wear a mask for.

Hence, point one: Extroverted Sensation is prone to a jovial public facade.

Point two: Introverted Judgment leads to an elitist attitude where the intimate ones are treated very differently than common people. (I realize we all treat our intimate ones differently from the non-intimates, but this phenomenon is more prominent in the Introverted Judging type. To drive the point home, consider the disparity INFPs (especially) and INTPs treat acquaintances and close friends. Same is to be said for the EPs, though to a slightly lesser degree as Introverted Judgment is weaker.)

Thus, it follows that the Extroverted Sensors you got to know had no reason to tell you about their true inner feelings and thoughts of remorse about their vulgar and stupid behavior because you were not in their inner circle. You may have been (which I doubt), though if you were, I'd truly be surprised if not even in private and after years of assured closeness they would not confess what is within them.

As for anecdotal examples. Consider the following anecdotal example. Just let your aesthetical judgment take over here.

YouTube - Hinder-Better Than Me

YouTube - Hinder - Lips Of An Angel

The lead singer of Hinder is almost certainly ESFP...

 

[SolitaryWalker]

You have not supplied any evidence to support this assertion.

The reason I gave was that it is difficult to maintain a high pace consistently. Compare running a marathon at 3 miles per hour consistently to running at 6 miles.

 

[Ivy]

It may not feel like a high pace to them. I have ESFP friends and their lifestyles would exhaust me in two seconds flat. Mine would bore the shit out of them. Clearly, we have different paces.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

It may not feel like a high pace to them. I have ESFP friends and their lifestyles would exhaust me in two seconds flat. Mine would bore the shit out of them. Clearly, we have different paces.

Their problem seems to be more of not having the sufficient time and energy to reflect. (They have plenty of energy for the outer world, yet little for the inner). This results in a confusion about their inner identity which undermines them profoundly, yet hardly noticeable to all but their closest.

This serves as an example to support my argument against the viability of a mercurial lifestyle conducing to happiness.

 

[Ivy]

Their problem seems to be more of not having the sufficient time and energy to reflect. (They have plenty of energy for the outer world, yet little for the inner). This results in a confusion about their inner identity which undermines them profoundly, yet hardly noticeable to all but their closest.

This serves as an example to support my argument against the viability of a mercurial lifestyle conducing to happiness.

You've basically just defined introversion vs. extroversion, and extrapolated from it that an extrovert's main problem is that he isn't an introvert.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

It's not a terrible hypothesis, but there's a major snag: people who seek refuge in their contemplation as a means of avoiding their emotions are not at peace at all. They're just as much a victim of their emotions as someone who follows them, except that their minds are consumed with escape instead of pursuit.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

It's not a terrible hypothesis, but there's a major snag: people who seek refuge in their contemplation as a means of avoiding their emotions are not at peace at all. They're just as much a victim of their emotions as someone who follows them, except that their minds are consumed with escape instead of pursuit.

Contemplation allows you to reduce the emotional content to deal with. In order to tame them you still need to work through them. This is easier to achieve in contemplation for two reasons. The aforementioned reduced content and a peaceful environment to deal with them in.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Contemplation allows you to reduce the emotional content to deal with. In order to tame them you still need to work through them. This is easier to achieve in contemplation for two reasons. The aforementioned reduced content and a peaceful environment to deal with them in.

I would agree, as long as "working through them" implies opening up to the full experience and not trying to hide in one's thoughts. There's a tendency in people (especially analytical people) to intellectualize the experiences that they find difficult, to retreat into a world of classifying events and personalities (say, for example, using MBTI) and organize those classifications into some type of order in order to create an illusion of control and to distance the subject from the experience. I'm not sure what your idea of contemplation is, but I wonder if you're guilty of conflating "dispassionate contemplation" with intellectualization.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

I would agree, as long as "working through them" implies opening up to the full experience and not trying to hide in one's thoughts. There's a tendency in people (especially analytical people) to intellectualize the experiences that they find difficult, to retreat into a world of classifying events and personalities (say, for example, using MBTI) and organize those classifications into some type of order in order to create an illusion of control and to distance the subject from the experience. I'm not sure what your idea of contemplation is, but I wonder if you're guilty of conflating "dispassionate contemplation" with intellectualization.

Pure contemplation won't do because there is a need to process emotion to some degree. Opening up to experiences is the most reliable way to accomplish this. It should be noted however, that this is auxiliary to the intellectual understanding of your purpose concerning processing emotion. First you need to understand the situation you're dealing with, with great clarity, and secondly you need to know exactly what you're doing when you're opening up, as otherwise you shall be easily carried off track by a whirlwind of activities in the external world.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Pure contemplation won't do because there is a need to process emotion to some degree. Opening up to experiences is the most reliable way to accomplish this. It should be noted however, that this is auxiliary to the intellectual understanding of your purpose concerning processing emotion. First you need to understand the situation you're dealing with, with great clarity, and secondly you need to know exactly what you're doing when you're opening up, as otherwise you shall be easily carried off track by a whirlwind of activities in the external world.

Would you agree that villianizing emotions would be counter-productive, in that it would make it more challenging to process a feeling without trying to escape it or create stories about it, or as you put it, getting carried off track?

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Would you agree that villianizing emotions would be counter-productive, in that it would make it more challenging to process a feeling without trying to escape it or create stories about it, or as you put it, getting carried off track?

It would be less productive to complete repress than to allow yourself to process slowly, but not even less so than allowing yourself to be carried away. Hell knows what you may be putting yourself through in the case of the latter. With the former, just a few bumps on the road because of lack of emotional intelligence. Nothing is more counter productive than loosing control.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

It would be less productive to complete repress than to allow yourself to process slowly, but not even less so than allowing yourself to be carried away. Hell knows what you may be putting yourself through in the case of the latter. With the former, just a few bumps on the road because of lack of emotional intelligence. Nothing is more counter productive than loosing control.

I don't think you really appreciate what dispassionate contemplation is if you say things like "nothing is more counter productive than losing control." Your struggle to gain control is just another one of the feelings you seek to uproot, in this case, your aversion to emotions and that suffering they cause. There's a saying in Zen that the best way to control a herd is a build a big fence. Trying to control your feelings is not how you overcome them; that's not "dispassionate" at all, it's complete immersion.

 

[JAVO]

It is better to stay moderately excited for a long period of time than attempt to seek great excitement. Doing the latter will lead to an emotional instability, as it is difficult to maintain a high level of excitement consistently.

The reason I gave was that it is difficult to maintain a high pace consistently. Compare running a marathon at 3 miles per hour consistently to running at 6 miles.

So your argument is that if something is difficult, it is best not to do it?

Plus, that still doesn't explain how prolonged excitement produces emotional instability. Maybe prolonged excitement just produces a desire for more sleep?

Psychological research might have something to say about these speculations.

 

[Mole]

Do you mean like the supersensual? Your inner world? Or do you mean supernautural: Channeling spirits or astral type experiences?

There has never been a civilization not based on a religion. And another name of the religion of a civilization is the Mythos of that civilization.

And the Mythos is the meaning of a civilization.

And you might further say that the Mythos is our heritage.

So to answer your questions - I don't mean the supersensual, I mean the supernatural. And within our Mythos, channeling spirits or astral type experiences are simply trivial.

For instance, Ancient Greece was founded on the Ancient Greek religion of Aphrodite, Apollo, Poseidon, Zeus and others.

While interestingly the religion of our civilization is based on Judaism and Ancient Greek philosophy. And it is within this religion we are introduced to the supernatural.

 

[Mole]

Magic or life?

It's true, he is a god from another world - he has supernatural powers - he is superman.

And he is in a long line of the supernatural - from Poseidon to the Angel Gabriel.

But I am leaving behind the four magic letters of MBTI and discovering the four letters of DNA.

MBTI is simply magic created by the magician Carl Jung.

While the four letters of DNA were discovered by Watson and Crick.

The four letters of MBTI are a magic code while the four letters of DNA are the code of life.

So you takes your choice - magic or life?

 

[SolitaryWalker]

So your argument is that if something is difficult, it is best not to do it?

Plus, that still doesn't explain how prolonged excitement produces emotional instability. Maybe prolonged excitement just produces a desire for more sleep?

Psychological research might have something to say about these speculations.

The point was to maintain consistency. Running a marathon at 3 miles an hour, you'll finish faster than at 6 miles an hour.