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Close minded and traditional people

hjgbujhghg

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I know, that everyone is different and everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want and it is not my business to change their beliefs. But I really hate when someone says "I am very open person and like novelties" and suddenly they start a pointless arguments that just prove they are not. I am disappointed by people and how they think about vegetarians. Only because I don't eat meat and others find it socially tolerated behavior I am wierd...I am wierd because I don't think killing lives just because they can taste good should be socially tolerated. I am weird because I don't vote and care about politics. Yes I find the system we live in economically slaving and I won't be a part of its political propaganda. I am weird because when I say , that complaining about politicians doesn't make any sense most of the people probably think they are very important when they make pointless arguments. Probably shitting about prime minister is the highest point open mindness they are able to reach. I am also weird because I say religions are brainwashing and doubt the existence of god...I know why people need to believe in something like this, but why do they have the need to tell me how important it is to believe in god? When I say them scientific facts that disprove religions, they look at me like at barbaric being. But when they tell me all the fact from bible it's the best thing ever and I need to sit and listen. Why? Why the hell people like this call themselves open minded? Honestly...how many people are willing to tolerate anything new?
 

gromit

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A lot of the times people who are "closed-minded" are that way because they haven't really ever interacted with those particular traits or beliefs. Obviously it doesn't always happen this way, but if they actually know someone like that and see they are just a person too, doing their best in terms of their own experiences and conscience, and that this person is not a direct threat to their own way of life and happiness, a lot of the stigma goes away.

It is wariness of the unknown for a great many people. Not all though, of course.
 

prplchknz

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I get mistaken for closed minded because I believe people's beliefs are their own and if it's not harming anyone it doesn't matter. I'll listen to others beliefs bit doesn't mean I'm going to charge mine
 

Noll

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I get mistaken for closed minded because I believe people's beliefs are their own and if it's not harming anyone it doesn't matter. I'll listen to others beliefs bit doesn't mean I'm going to charge mine
What's your views on animal rights, vegetarianism etc? It does harm the animals you know.
 

kyuuei

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I know, that everyone is different and everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want and it is not my business to change their beliefs.

But this is where closed minded comes into play. Traditional people don't have to be closed minded at all--nor are non-traditional people open minded. You seem just as closed off as the people you're complaining about right now.

I am disappointed by people and how they think about vegetarians. Only because I don't eat meat and others find it socially tolerated behavior I am wierd.

It IS a bit weird. An understandable weird, but you cannot think that being a vegetarian is the norm of society. Our bodies were built to handle both vegetables and meat, and it is in our instincts to eat such. There are moral reasons behind vegetarianism, health reasons, etc. etc.
And to be honest, no agenda has ever been pushed so hard on me as the one to stop the eating of animals. Vegetarianism is non traditional. And there are very complex arguments for both sides of the story. But I feel like that's something you sort of have to prepare yourself for when you choose to do things like that. Being a vegetarian is just higher on your priorities than being seen as normal to society. Which is fine--but it seems a little off to be upset that not everyone agrees with you--and that some of those people are vocal.
The way I dress isn't very traditional.. and I am frequently mistaken for being a boy because of it. It isn't my intentions, but if I got mad every time someone assumed I was a boy I would have myself to look at--not others. And I've had some pretty awful, disgusting insults thrown my way just for choosing to wear an oversized hoodie and loose jeans on a cold day.

I am weird because I don't vote and care about politics. Yes I find the system we live in economically slaving and I won't be a part of its political propaganda.

Again pretty closed-minded statement. It can also be said that unless you're actively working to tear down the current structure.. then you're pretty much feeding the system with apathy and quiet acceptance. A lack of voice and vote is a vote in the winning direction--whatever is winning during that time. There is a reason that voting was such a big deal throughout any country's history. And there are good people in politics trying to do good things. These guys usually lose because no one cares enough to hear about them, read about them, and support them. And they're fighting the uphill non-profit battle.

I am also weird because I say religions are brainwashing and doubt the existence of god...I know why people need to believe in something like this, but why do they have the need to tell me how important it is to believe in god?

:shrug: Why do vegetarians tell me chickens are being abused when I don't really care? I am weird to be that way to vegetarians.. but to me, if they wanted a cruelty-free farm, they'd start one. Telling me to not eat chickens isn't really the answer. I'm still going to eat chicken. So, a viable solution would be to be open minded and compromise by offering a farm that's quite sweet to the chickens and then selling them. But they're SO strict on their moral beliefs about eating meat that that's not really a viable answer.. and so, there's really no compromising.

It's like that with many subjects. No one wants to betray what they feel is right. And I don't expect them to.. but at the same time, people need to know it's an impasse that just exists. Nothing to be angry about.

To truly believe something is there that is wonderful of any sort.. it is hard not to plug it into your life. Religion is a complex subject.. I feel like if you truly did know why people need to believe in these sort of things, you wouldn't be asking that question.

When I say them scientific facts that disprove religions, they look at me like at barbaric being. But when they tell me all the fact from bible it's the best thing ever and I need to sit and listen. Why? Why the hell people like this call themselves open minded? Honestly...how many people are willing to tolerate anything new?

I feel like you're just feeding the fire. Because the truth is, you're not expected to sit and listen to anything. You can easily, and politely, speak up and mention you just differ in this area and do not wish to discuss the topic without being rude. I have declined many political discussions before and no one has ever thought I was being an ass for doing it.

People know that there are others out there that don't believe what they do. And I have a feeling you're not really friends with a lot (or any?) of hard-and-fast Christians. If you are, they know who you are by now.. It isn't difficult to just simply decline conversation in that regard. Don't expect censorship.. If you ask a Christian why bad things are happening, they'll tell you it's because you turned away from God. So take it with a grain of salt.

If you're throwing out science stuff as if it were the end-all save-all facts of life, you're doing the exact same thing those Christians are from the opposite side. Science has not proven anything against religion. Science itself has said that. There are many scientists that are still religious. It is still viable for many complex reasons--it isn't just a band-aid approach to life. And many of its biggest theories are still just that--theories. Not proven. Able to be changed when the first shred of hard evidence contrary to it comes its way.

You can be open minded and be completely not-up-for-negotiation on a subject too. There are Christians who will not betray their religion for anything--but are also believing that homosexuality is not a disorder and should have equal rights.
 

kyuuei

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I know, that everyone is different and everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want and it is not my business to change their beliefs.

But this is where closed minded comes into play. Traditional people don't have to be closed minded at all--nor are non-traditional people open minded. You seem just as closed off as the people you're complaining about right now.

I am disappointed by people and how they think about vegetarians. Only because I don't eat meat and others find it socially tolerated behavior I am wierd.

It IS a bit weird. An understandable weird, but you cannot think that being a vegetarian is the norm of society. Our bodies were built to handle both vegetables and meat, and it is in our instincts to eat such. There are moral reasons behind vegetarianism, health reasons, etc. etc.
And to be honest, no agenda has ever been pushed so hard on me as the one to stop the eating of animals. Vegetarianism is non traditional. And there are very complex arguments for both sides of the story. But I feel like that's something you sort of have to prepare yourself for when you choose to do things like that. Being a vegetarian is just higher on your priorities than being seen as normal to society. Which is fine--but it seems a little off to be upset that not everyone agrees with you--and that some of those people are vocal.
The way I dress isn't very traditional.. and I am frequently mistaken for being a boy because of it. It isn't my intentions, but if I got mad every time someone assumed I was a boy I would have myself to look at--not others. And I've had some pretty awful, disgusting insults thrown my way just for choosing to wear an oversized hoodie and loose jeans on a cold day.

I am weird because I don't vote and care about politics. Yes I find the system we live in economically slaving and I won't be a part of its political propaganda.

Again pretty closed-minded statement. It can also be said that unless you're actively working to tear down the current structure.. then you're pretty much feeding the system with apathy and quiet acceptance. A lack of voice and vote is a vote in the winning direction--whatever is winning during that time. There is a reason that voting was such a big deal throughout any country's history. And there are good people in politics trying to do good things. These guys usually lose because no one cares enough to hear about them, read about them, and support them. And they're fighting the uphill non-profit battle.

I am also weird because I say religions are brainwashing and doubt the existence of god...I know why people need to believe in something like this, but why do they have the need to tell me how important it is to believe in god?

:shrug: Why do vegetarians tell me chickens are being abused when I don't really care? I am weird to be that way to vegetarians.. but to me, if they wanted a cruelty-free farm, they'd start one. Telling me to not eat chickens isn't really the answer. I'm still going to eat chicken. So, a viable solution would be to be open minded and compromise by offering a farm that's quite sweet to the chickens and then selling them. But they're SO strict on their moral beliefs about eating meat that that's not really a viable answer.. and so, there's really no compromising.

It's like that with many subjects. No one wants to betray what they feel is right. And I don't expect them to.. but at the same time, people need to know it's an impasse that just exists. Nothing to be angry about.

To truly believe something is there that is wonderful of any sort.. it is hard not to plug it into your life. Religion is a complex subject.. I feel like if you truly did know why people need to believe in these sort of things, you wouldn't be asking that question.

When I say them scientific facts that disprove religions, they look at me like at barbaric being. But when they tell me all the fact from bible it's the best thing ever and I need to sit and listen. Why? Why the hell people like this call themselves open minded? Honestly...how many people are willing to tolerate anything new?

I feel like you're just feeding the fire. Because the truth is, you're not expected to sit and listen to anything. You can easily, and politely, speak up and mention you just differ in this area and do not wish to discuss the topic without being rude. I have declined many political discussions before and no one has ever thought I was being an ass for doing it.

People know that there are others out there that don't believe what they do. And I have a feeling you're not really friends with a lot (or any?) of hard-and-fast Christians. If you are, they know who you are by now.. It isn't difficult to just simply decline conversation in that regard. Don't expect censorship.. If you ask a Christian why bad things are happening, they'll tell you it's because you turned away from God. So take it with a grain of salt.

If you're throwing out science stuff as if it were the end-all save-all facts of life, you're doing the exact same thing those Christians are from the opposite side. Science has not proven anything against religion. Science itself has said that. There are many scientists that are still religious. It is still viable for many complex reasons--it isn't just a band-aid approach to life. And many of its biggest theories are still just that--theories. Not proven. Able to be changed when the first shred of hard evidence contrary to it comes its way.

You can be open minded and be completely not-up-for-negotiation on a subject too. There are Christians who will not betray their religion for anything--but are also believing that homosexuality is not a disorder and should have equal rights.
 

cafe

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In the US there is a decent amount of cruelty involved in the harvesting of produce. It's just against humans instead of animals.
 

hjgbujhghg

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[MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION] Yes, you're right....being a vegetarian is not a social norm. But so far I only met people who tell me how weird and unnatural it is to be a vegetarian. Usually I just sit and don't say anything at all to these people, because I know talking about animals cruelty with them it's pointless. I know I won't change their mind...but yesterday I was literally attacked by a woman who started to yell at me all the arguments for eating meat...I just sat and listen...Because I knew attacking someone else's beliefs is pointless and wrong. About politics...I said how meaningless it is to just keep shitting about politics and not do anything at all. I was in the first line when there was protest against corruption in politics. Not voting doesn't mean not to be politically active. I am politically active in protests, but not in votings to goverment. And the religion, I know this is it. So I believe in science, they believe in god. Why the hell they won't let me to believe in science, but instead they try to feed me with sayings from bible? :shrug:
 

1487610420

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Tradition gives society a sense of purpose. Religion gives society a sense of purpose. Politics frees society from the burden of governing itself so the people can be free to enjoy their sense of purpose.
 

skylights

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@Polly, I feel like typically the people you are talking about express anger towards you because you represent a threat to their way of being or belief. People are much more willing to be accepting of things once it becomes clear that your position is not meant as a personal slight towards the way they choose to live. Of course it is not your responsibility to change your opinions to be more tasteful to others, but you are in control of how you choose to present them, and may benefit from adjusting accordingly.

As @kyuuei already explained well, your OP comes off as intolerant towards others as you are accusing them of being. I am sure that was not your intention, but it is a pertinent observation. People who eat meat or believe in the Bible have as much right to their own opinions as you do, and in an ideal world would be equally free from judgment about their intelligence or moral fiber based on those opinions alone. It does not sound like you respect believers' faith in the Bible any more than the people you are talking about respect your belief in atheism/agnosticism. It must work in both directions. Incidentally, you will find that most people have views that deviate from mainstream - mainstream is average but not normal, if that makes sense. If there is a "safe space" established where people feel safe to share their idiosyncracies, most people will admit to deviation. A conservative family friend and I were talking about cohabitation at one point and she admitted to having cohabited once herself, though nominally against it. It is surprising how alike people are when things are framed in the right way.

Of course it is not fair of anyone to mistreat you, though, either. If someone yells at you for your choices, excuse yourself from the situation. There is no reason you need to endure abuse. Despite the complexity of the world, humans still appear to learn primarily by observation and imitation. Be an example of the sort of treatment you would like to receive, and hope that others may learn from your wisdom and dignity.

The Great One said:
These people that you refer to are known as SJ E1's.

This is not a true generalization. If any enneatype I would expect it more of 6s. A 1 might preach to the choir but is typically tightly controlled and probably far less likely to regurgitate their opinions on a stranger than a threatened 6. As for SJ and traditionalism, a can of worms. Suffice it to say that I do not detect any greater proclivity towards closed-mindedness in the SJs I know than any other type. If anything, SJs are typically quite open to substantial factual evidence for the benefits of making change, while others may require more esoteric methods to convince.
 

kyuuei

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Yes, you're right....being a vegetarian is not a social norm. But so far I only met people who tell me how weird and unnatural it is to be a vegetarian.

It is unnatural. :laugh: But so is monogamy for humans, and we still do that. You'll get people who will attack anything. But vegetarians are not THAT uncommon either. There's departments, menus, and sections dedicated to them. Vegan is a little harder to accommodate, but I think vegetarianism is really common. NOT normal, or in the majority, but common. Some people are vegetarian for the sake of healthy eating, so I think if it isn't popular where you're at it very well could be soon.

Why the hell they won't let me to believe in science, but instead they try to feed me with sayings from bible? :shrug:

Well.. Honestly, they kind of ARE letting you believe in science. No one is saying you can't. You're always going to have disagreements. But... Honestly, someone along the way told you about science, and it's findings, and that's how you learned about it and got interested. Can you not see that people try to spark that same kind of interest in a similar fashion? There are all kinds of stories where someone just talking about God inspired someone to convert. You never know what people will grab a hold of and pay attention to..
 

wolfy

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It is unnatural.



Everything is unnatural though isn't it? I remember thinking to myself what of my behaviours weren't second nature. Even going to the toilet was second nature.

It is all a choice.

People hold onto things because it gives them structure. Everybody does that. Humans are funny.
 

cafe

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The only thing that bothers me about vegetarians is that I'm terrified I'm accidentally going to feed them the wrong thing. My older daughter and my older son each has a vegetarian friend that visits our house periodically and I get neurotic that they are going to be hungry or I'm accidentally going to feed them something that will horrify them and then I will feel like a terrible person. They are nice kids and I would be mortified to offend them. Like, what if I forget I used shortening in the cookies??? GAAAAAH!!!!! :overreact:
 

prplchknz

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what's the most common scenario you're bringing this up? if it's just to tell them it's annoying but if they're like want a steak and are than are like I'm vegetarian then that's understandable. it's all about how you present your beliefs
 

ceecee

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The only thing that bothers me about vegetarians is that I'm terrified I'm accidentally going to feed them the wrong thing. My older daughter and my older son each has a vegetarian friend that visits our house periodically and I get neurotic that they are going to be hungry or I'm accidentally going to feed them something that will horrify them and then I will feel like a terrible person. They are nice kids and I would be mortified to offend them. Like, what if I forget I used shortening in the cookies??? GAAAAAH!!!!! :overreact:

I will try to accommodate dietary needs and wishes but I refuse to get pent up about it. If it were me and I had a specific diet I adhered to, I would bring my own food. I would never expect others to make adjustments for my choices or needs.
 

cafe

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I will try to accommodate dietary needs and wishes but I refuse to get pent up about it. If it were me and I had a specific diet I adhered to, I would bring my own food. I would never expect others to make adjustments for my choices or needs.
Both of these kids would just sit there and politely starve. They are both painfully thin and have difficult home lives and have been friends with my kids for 7 and 10 years respectively. I'd really just rather stab myself with a fork than upset the boy, especially.
 

skylights

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The only thing that bothers me about vegetarians is that I'm terrified I'm accidentally going to feed them the wrong thing. My older daughter and my older son each has a vegetarian friend that visits our house periodically and I get neurotic that they are going to be hungry or I'm accidentally going to feed them something that will horrify them and then I will feel like a terrible person. They are nice kids and I would be mortified to offend them. Like, what if I forget I used shortening in the cookies??? GAAAAAH!!!!! :overreact:

What you don't know can't hurt you... kidding ;)

I wouldn't worry much about the kids. I was a vegetarian for a while and a vegan briefly; one gets quite good at reading labels and anticipating certain ingredients. One also gets good at waiting to eat or scrounging up food elsewhere. It is just a facet of vegetarian/vegan life that sometimes you have to guess and sometimes you have to wait. Far from being offended, I'm sure they're appreciative that you try to be accommodating.

As for horrifying them, ain't nothing that compares to the smell of a just-opened package of tofu noodles. :horror:
 
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