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Best type for Metaphysics and Cosmology

What type makes the best metaphysicist/cosmologist?

  • INFP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ENFP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ENTJ

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ENFJ

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ISTP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ISFP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ISFJ

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ESTP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ESFP

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ESTJ

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ESFJ

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    8
I

Infinite Bubble

Guest
"origin, "first cause" and even "existence" are metaphors that are based on our proximal reality. Origin is a spatial metaphor, as is first cause. Existence is based on container metaphors - a full versus empty container. These metaphors do not generalize to talking about reality. There is no ultimate reason for the existence of the universe, it always has and always will exist, that's just the way it is.

Nice post, I agree with this.

Most people think there has to be a reason, because "reason" as a concept is so ingrained into our brains. But of course there doesn't have to be. I think the idea that there really is no reason to existence makes people uncomfortable, because we're so used to looking for it. We have to for survival after all. But why should that be applicable to anything beyond our tiny slither of reality? Reason probably doesn't exist beyond how our brains subjectively determine causalities.
 

RaptorWizard

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
5,895
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Not necessarily.







How does it feel?

Complaining about someone who speaks in absolutes is an argument of the form "not necessarily," which is a generally weak argument. It's strong in formal systems, but we can rarely prove anything. Our knowledge comes along with a confidence measure and that measure is rarely fully confident, even if it is expressed as so in order to help emphasize a point.

"Really powerful argument spoken with more confidence than is realistic."

"Not necessarily."

"Okay, what about my actual argument?"

"It's not necessarily true."

"Yeah, ok, have a nice life."

Well, I don't like to think that all things are necessary; some things just are, even if we can't explain how or why.

Again, you have used a container metaphor to talk about reality. This leads to contradictions in any reasonable formal system. Reality is not an object. If it were, then it would have to be in a container. Have you ever seen an uncontained object? No. Have you ever seen an uncontained container? Nope. And just like that we get turtles all the way down.

We don't even know the basic architectures of our universe - whether it's open and infinite or finite and closed, a positively curved sphere or a negatively curved saddle, or even a flat torus. Surely there's no way we can know what lies beyond it all, at least not yet.

Consciousness evolved. The question is, what is its utility?

It's usefulness is in that we can have life, both experience it and have a means for preserving it longer. But that's only at our level of existence as we know it. Up above, assuming any of that exists, perhaps our minds could do so much more. I would even say that evolution is an integral factor here, as it makes changes that we can perceive, and can lift us up to higher states.

Nothing goes beyond physics. This is a god of the gaps-style argument.

Reason can carry us to the pinnacle, but only with sufficient faith will we jump off of the mountainside and fly up into the sky.

First, if you can't prove that something is correct then you should temper your confidence in it. Indeed, if it is Not Even Wrong i.e. not even testable you should spend almost no time thinking about it. Second, you should question the utility of your metaphysics. In order to do this you're going to have to define an objective function.

We don't need to expect scientifically verifiable results for everything before its time has come. Try telling the American Indians from times past to prove that the Earth is round, or that the Earth isn't the center of the universe; that under our present observations is the real fact, but people with limited perceptions would have no means of proving so. As such, they would need fundamental theories first to lay foundations for future explorations.

Pure theory lacks utility. Why are you theorizing. If it is to discover the truth, then your pattern of theorizing and believing without testing is deeply flawed.

Pure theories may lack immediate usefulness, but they also have promise for much more development beyond the world as we know it, can come to expand our horizons and vision.
 

LalalaLalalu

New member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
1
MBTI Type
Infj
Enneagram
5w4
I don't think you understood my point, because your response to it is even more object-based metaphors.



Faith is probably the single most nefarious thought virus ever created. I can't believe you just said that to me. KILL IT WITH FIRE.

A lot way too late, but faith is not something useless at all. Without faith whether in something beyond or in ourselves, we would never have come this far, perhaps the whole humanity is still live in the cave or something.

Faith, if too much, it's become nefarious and a plague to our existence. So faith and reason which are like two side of the same coin, shadow to one another, must be in utter balance for the world will go in a healthy flow and toward future.

Sometimes things that are intangible like faith, ideal, even theories are much more important to us humanity not in physical way but in spiritual way. Intangible, yep it is, but so what? They are always with us since the first culture bloomed. And they will lead us toward future as well.

I always hope though that spiritually, us,humans will grow.
 

Sugarpot

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2018
Messages
14
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I love that documentary Isaac Newton: The Last Magician.
 
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