Mormonism - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

[RaptorWizard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism

What are your thoughts on this religious movement?

Here's the 13 articles of faith Mormons live by as a basic outline of their beliefs:

1.We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2.We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3.We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4.We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5.We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6.We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7.We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8.We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9.We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10.We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11.We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12.We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13.We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

It's a cult.

 

[gromit]

I think Mormons go overboard in some ways but all the ones I know in person are super nice, try really hard to be good people, work at self-improvement, care about their families and communities, etc.

For example, my sister just got married to a woman with a very religious Mormon extended family. It was really sweet to me, to see her aunt helping with the flower arrangements, tying bows around the chair covers (and see her husband on a step ladder, stringing up lights from the rafters) for the party/reception... doing all the sort of home-makey, crafty, beautiful things that Mormon women do, but to support her niece's lesbian marriage, which is not something the Mormon church is quite ready to support. I suspect she was a little outside her comfort zone, but she was really so heartwarmingly conscientious, pitched in where help was needed, and seemed really glad that she could contribute to the special day.

Every religion has its sort of "iffy" doctrines and historical moments, just that Mormonism's are much more recent and less widely-accepted.

 

[gromit]

I voted that they have good values/the truth, but obviously not exclusively, and of course there is some sticky stuff, so my answer was more overall.

 

[Coriolis]

I have known relatively few Mormons, and all have been odd in some way. The women were the pushiest, bossiest women I have ever known. They refused even to consider dating men who were not Mormons, and who had not gone on Mormon Mission. The men mentioned odd habits which they attributed to their faith, like not drinking hot beverages. To his credit, one of them mentioned being uncomfortable on mission, since he didn't think it his place to tell other people what to believe or how to worship (which would contradict item 11 in the OP anyway). He said he was relieved that his group was mostly ministering to an existing congregation, so less push to seek converts. All of them seemed to have this blind obedience to everything they were taught growing up, and everything they were expected to do to "live right".

 

[mooseantlers]

I think the Mormon church is an absolute joke, I wasn't buying it at age 8. (I think all organized religion is an absolute joke though, so I'm not picking on Mormonism.)

 

[Beorn]

Not Christian.
As much as Protestants, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox disagree on things they all affirm the early creeds that established what Christianity fundamentally is and Mormons contradict those along with all of their additional teachings.

 

[RaptorWizard]

It's a cult.

True, they do indeed have funny rituals that they keep secret, supposedly because it's "sacred".

I voted that they have good values/the truth, but obviously not exclusively, and of course there is some sticky stuff, so my answer was more overall.

Well ya, on the whole I agree that they're generally good people, but that doesn't make their beliefs complete.

I have known relatively few Mormons, and all have been odd in some way. The women were the pushiest, bossiest women I have ever known. They refused even to consider dating men who were not Mormons, and who had not gone on Mormon Mission. The men mentioned odd habits which they attributed to their faith, like not drinking hot beverages. To his credit, one of them mentioned being uncomfortable on mission, since he didn't think it his place to tell other people what to believe or how to worship (which would contradict item 11 in the OP anyway). He said he was relieved that his group was mostly ministering to an existing congregation, so less push to seek converts. All of them seemed to have this blind obedience to everything they were taught growing up, and everything they were expected to do to "live right".

Unfortunately, mamy Mormons seems to have these negative traits of close-mindedness and lack of exploration, but still, some of it helps to keep them "safe" (even it it limits expansion).

I think the Mormon church is an absolute joke, I wasn't buying it at age 8. (I think all organized religion is an absolute joke though, so I'm not picking on Mormonism.)

I was actually born into the Church and baptized at age 8, and parts of the faith may or may not have value, but ultimately, I really don't care whether or not my name is on "the list".

Not Christian.
As much as Protestants, Roman Catholics, and Eastern Orthodox disagree on things they all affirm the early creeds that established what Christianity fundamentally is and Mormons contradict those along with all of their additional teachings.

Well, they aren't Christian by all traditional biblical standards, but they do still believe in God and Jesus as living entities that can shine the way to the kingdom.

It's interesting how people see the Mormons from such a different perspective. They tell me all of the time that they're on a different plane from most people, which is kind of funny, because in most other ways, they're quite mediocre. I still think though that the church has good values.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

They aren't theologically Christian, but use most of the Christian terminology. They have some good family values - as good as most any Christian group. I know and respect some strongly Mormon individuals. I've also know some rigorously controlling ones that did some rather disturbing things like baptizing a man who had rejected their faith his entire life even though he married a Mormon woman. When he was too old, feeble, and partly senile, they baptized him. That was a deep violation of a person's will.

Edit: I spent ages 11 until I went to college deep in Mormon country. In seventh grade I spent one year at a school where I was literally the only kid who wasn't Mormon. Their culture is a lot like the church I grew up in, although the two churches wouldn't like that comparison. ha.

 

[RaptorWizard]

[MENTION=14857]fia[/MENTION] hmm, that's interesting how you've had so much exposure to their ways, and seen how restrictive they can be. God instead wants us to be free.

My conspiracies as to the validity of the church I've held so long within myself have now been better confirmed.

 

[Coriolis]

They aren't theologically Christian, but use most of the Christian terminology.

What is your definition of Christian, then? I thought if someone believed in the divinity of Christ and accepted his teachings, that was enough.

 

[Beorn]

What is your definition of Christian, then? I thought if someone believed in the divinity of Christ and accepted his teachings, that was enough.

See my post above. They don't affirm the apostle's creed or the nicene creed.

Specifically, they don't believe in the trinity. If you don't believe in the trinity then you're not Christian. The importance of the trinity has been downplayed in most evangelical circles over the last 50 years so I don't think most people are aware of just how central it is.

A good comparison would be with seventh day Adventists who also have some kooky beliefs from my perspective (church on saturday and diet restrictions) as well as a recent prophet and founder, Ellen White. Even they can (though not necessarily) fall within orthodoxy despite those things.

 

[Forever]

If y'all want to ask me. Feel free to post and ask me about some stuff. Kind of feel bad, we're being dissected. I know some great ones, and I know some pretty lame ones as well. I'm one and if you have questions, awesome. If you look under the meaning of cult, I'm kindof yes and no. On the definition most people use, I say no.

Also, private message me, if you're going to anti me then don't bother. Don't like arguing. But if you just have honest questions go ahead.

Some basic points that separate us out:

We believe in separation of the trinity:
*Heavenly Father (The Creator)
*Jesus Christ (The Mediator)
*Holy Ghost (The Testifier/Witness)

We believe the Bible AND Book of Mormon to be the word of God. It's funny how people don't think we believe in the Bible because we don't think it's infallible. Plenty of Christians believe that the Bible contains errors, others don't.

We believe because of Christ and His Atonement that faith and works we can be saved. Little children are "alive in Christ" so before 8 don't have to worry about not being saved. Regardless of who they are.(don't understand why it has to be 8, but it doesn't seem too irresponsible of an age)

First one to say that we have a prophet before any others decide to say so. We believe the Sabbath Day is on Sunday because of Jesus Christ's resurrection. The Holy Ghost is giving by the laying on of hands. People can feel the Holy Ghost testify, but baptism and confirmation "promises" we have the Holy Ghost to always be with us when we are keeping our covenants and commandments that He has given us. We are a proselyting church. (I'm sure that's obvious)

I don't know. Don't wanna seem like an info guide haha. But yeah.

But by truth, we are pretty confident that we have much more truth than other religions, but we can learn something from everybody, no matter who it is. We don't attack other churches either, because on that article of faith, we respect those who worship God to their own conscience. (Yet you see us want to keep talking to you all haha) It's not so much of "THE TRUTH"

I admit, some members of the church need to do their own research as well before they start talking like they're the big shiz.

 

[Seymour]

What is your definition of Christian, then? I thought if someone believed in the divinity of Christ and accepted his teachings, that was enough.

Mormon theology and cosmology is pretty different from most Christian denominations:

Several doctrines and practices of the LDS Church are unique within Christianity. For example, the Mormon cosmology and plan of salvation include the doctrines of a pre-mortal life, three degrees of heaven, and exaltation. According to these doctrines every human spirit is a literal child of Heavenly Father, and each has the potential to continue to learn, grow, and progress in the eternities, eventually achieving eternal life (which Latter-day Saints view as distinct from immortality), which is to become one with God in the same way that Jesus Christ is one with the Father, thus allowing the children of God to become divine beings or "gods" themselves.[70] Achieving this same status is also referred to as becoming a "joint-heir with Christ."[71] The process by which this is done is called exaltation, a doctrine which includes the reunification of the mortal family after the resurrection and the ability to have spirit children in the afterlife and inherit a portion of God's kingdom.[72] To obtain this state of godhood, the church teaches that one must have faith in Jesus Christ, repent of his or her sins, strive to keep the commandments faithfully, and participate in a sequence of ceremonial covenants called ordinances, which include baptism, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Endowment, and celestial marriage.[73][74]

So, in Mormon theology, as I understand it, Jesus was not uniquely divine or the uniquely the son of God (although he was the firstborn of God's spirit babies). He was just appointed to be the means of salvation, and did so righteously. However, the souls of all people (in Mormon theology) existed before we were born as spirit babies born of God and God's wife.

The Earth's creation, according to Mormon scripture, was not ex nihilo, but organized from existing matter. The faith teaches that this earth is just one of many inhabited worlds, and that there are many governing heavenly bodies, including a planet or star Kolob which is said to be nearest the throne of God. According to the King Follett discourse, God the Father himself once passed through mortality like Jesus did, but how, when, or where that took place is unclear. The prevailing view among Mormons is that God once lived on a planet with his own higher god.[4][5]

Hence, it makes sense that Mormons are over-represented among fantasy and science fiction authors, since their religion has ideas about separate planets with their own god. Most Christians of other denominations find this to be a little strange, or at least extra-Christian. (Not that most religions aren't strange when viewed from the outside.)

Also, Mormon's are non-trinitarian and don't adhere to the beliefs in the Nicene Creed, which has kind of been a touchstone for what falls under mainstream Christianity.

Disclaimer: Dated a Mormon in high school, had long talks about Mormon theology, etc, but hardly an expert.

 

[Coriolis]

We believe in separation of the trinity:
*Heavenly Father (The Creator)
*Jesus Christ (The Mediator)
*Holy Ghost (The Testifier/Witness).

Also, Mormon's are non-trinitarian and don't adhere to the beliefs in the Nicene Creed, which has kind of been a touchstone for what falls under mainstream Christianity.

So which is it? Do Mormons believe in the trinity, or not? Some people say Catholics are not Christians, but they believe in the trinity, as well as the nicene creed. These definitions of Christian seem rather restrictive. To meet them, it is not enough to believe in Christ, one must believe in him and view him in a very specific way.

Now my questions about Mormonism:

1. Assuming the list of principles in the OP is correct, on what basis do Mormons even conduct missionary activity? As I alluded to in a previous post, that seems to contradict item 11.

2. What does Mormonism teach is the source of divine knowledge? What is the role of the church as an institution vs. the individual believer in interpreting sacred writings?

3. How are believers taught to resolve conflicts between church teachings and conscience?

4. Not too long ago in the history of the Mormon church, polygamy and a view of separation of the races were both considered important doctrines. Has the church betrayed its own values by giving up these principles in order to fit into American society better? If they were so easily given up, how important were they to begin with?

 

[Seymour]

The separation of the trinity (3 separate beings, as Mormons believe) is not the doctrine of the trinity. Hence, the LDS church is considered non-trinitarian. Some of your other issues could be handled by the Mormon belief in continuous revelation, which allows for changing doctrine over time.

 

[Coriolis]

The separation of the trinity (3 separate beings, as Mormons believe) is not the doctrine of the trinity. Hence, the LDS church is considered non-trinitarian.

How are these different?

 

[Beorn]

How are these different?

Key word is "separation."

Christians believe in one God in three persons. All three persons are of the same essence or substance eternally coexisting. While, non-trintarians do not believe that the three always did and always will co-exist as one, but rather that Jesus was created by God.


This goes all the way back to Arius.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Last week the Mormon missionaries told me to watch this:

Patterns of Light by Elder Bednar. ALL 3 PARTS: What is Light, Discerning Light, Power of Revelation

[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION], since you're both a Mormon member and believer, I'm curious as to what your thoughts on this video may be.

 

[Coriolis]

Key word is "separation."

Christians believe in one God in three persons. All three persons are of the same essence or substance eternally coexisting. While, non-trintarians do not believe that the three always did and always will co-exist as one, but rather that Jesus was created by God.


This goes all the way back to Arius.

What do Mormons believe, and what makes this distinction so important? It sounds like an argument over semantics.