Mormonism - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

[Beorn]

What do Mormons believe, and what makes this distinction so important? It sounds like an argument over semantics.

It's a difference between being polytheistic and monotheistic. It's also a matter of being consistent with the OT view of God which is plainly monotheistic.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

What is your definition of Christian, then? I thought if someone believed in the divinity of Christ and accepted his teachings, that was enough.

By a broader definition that you present they could be included, but there is a lot more that the majority of Christendom has in common, primarily because it uses the Bible as the primary reference source for constructing its theology whereas Mormonism uses first the Book of Mormon and references the Bible as a secondary source. When in conflict, it is the Book of Mormon that is seen as the more reliable, clear source of truth.

Joseph Smith was a Mason and also studied White Witchcraft, and he was also a science fiction writer from what I understand. A number of the temple rights and blessings are taken from these sources and the structure of the religion places humanity on the same level as God the Father and Christ and Satan (who are brothers), except that we are at an earlier stage in our development. God the Father was once a human on another planet (I think there are sources of early Joseph Smith writings that name it as "Koolag"). He lived up to his calling, married, and now has a planet of his own which is populated by the spirit children he has in Heaven with his wife. Humans procreate to make the vessels, and the spirits come down from Heaven, each one choosing which body they will inhabit. If an individual follows all the commands of the church, is married in the temple, then that union is set for all eternity and that Mormon man will one day be a god of his own planet populating it with the spirit children he has with his wife.

In Biblical Christianity there are numerous interpretations and theology, but God is seen as sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, and humanity serves God. There is no eventual equality. That difference in the concept of God and man, along with the Bible vs. the Book of Mormon as the primary source of scripture is what creates a marked distinction.

If there are any Mormons on the board that can point out any inaccuracies in my understanding, please do. It isn't my purpose to insult or communicate anything incorrect. This is my understanding of the religion based on discussions with Mormons, but I encountered the ideas as an outsider which is different from understanding it as an insider.

 

[Snoopy22]

• Mormons have good values. – Some do some do not
• Mormons have the truth. - No
• Mormons are Christian. – The more deeply a Mormon becomes involved into the Mormon doctrine; they separate themselves from Christianity.
• Mormons have bad values. – Some do some do not
• Mormons don't have the truth. - Yes
• Mormons aren't Christian. – It resembles Christianity to a great extent, that places many people on the peripheries still in the area of searching for Christ.

It’s a religion based on works and created in the same manner as the Muslim religion. Being based on works, it tends to attract those with higher educations. And in some ways they put Christians and other faiths to shame.
I have no more care for them (as a religion not as people) as I would for any other religion, don’t bug (or cause harm to) me and I don’t bug (or won’t cause harm to) them.

 

[lowtech redneck]

Mainstream Mormons have good values overall, and seem generally inclined to live up to them, so broadly speaking I have a positive opinion of them. I've heard vague references about some kind of unfortunate 'mark of cain' type of stuff in their theology, but that seems to have been interpreted away as no longer spiritually relevant (i.e. rejected as a basis for racism, bigotry, or exclusion of contemporary people of color).

A friend of mine from Algeria asked me whether they were Christian*, and my reply was "They think they are, nobody else does"....I gave the Druze as an Islamic comparison, though perhaps the Ahmadis are a better example. You might even say Mormonism is to Christianity what Christianity is to Judaism, with a new holy book that for all practical purposes supersedes the old ones, and certain doctrinal differences to justify the inclusion of that new revelation.

Also, not an expert, I could be ass-wrong on any number of points for all mentioned religions.

*I think the topic came up because a couple of mutual friends were talking about being ex-Mormon neo-pagans.

 

[lowtech redneck]

Mainstream Mormons have good values overall, and seem generally inclined to live up to them, so broadly speaking I have a positive opinion of them. I've heard vague references about some kind of unfortunate 'mark of cain' type of stuff in their theology, but that seems to have been interpreted away as no longer spiritually relevant (i.e. rejected as a basis for racism, bigotry, or exclusion of contemporary people of color).

A friend of mine from Algeria asked me whether they were Christian*, and my reply was "They think they are, nobody else does"....I gave the Druze as an Islamic comparison, though perhaps the Ahmadis are a better example. You might even say Mormonism is to Christianity what Christianity is to Judaism, with a new holy book that for all practical purposes supersedes the old ones, and certain doctrinal differences to justify the inclusion of that new revelation.

Also, not an expert, I could be ass-wrong on any number of points for all mentioned religions.

*I think the topic came up because a couple of mutual friends were talking about being ex-Mormon neo-pagans.

 

[Evil Otter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism

What are your thoughts on this religious movement?

Here's the 13 articles of faith Mormons live by as a basic outline of their beliefs:

1.We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2.We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3.We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4.We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5.We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6.We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7.We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8.We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9.We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10.We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11.We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12.We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13.We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Was mormon until I was 22 and some. did the mission decided it was wrong toward the end of my mish. Ask me whatever you want to know. I'll try to be objective and I'll tell you if it's my opinion or doctrine.

 

[Mal12345]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism

What are your thoughts on this religious movement?

Here's the 13 articles of faith Mormons live by as a basic outline of their beliefs:

1.We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2.We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3.We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4.We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5.We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6.We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7.We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8.We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9.We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10.We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11.We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12.We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13.We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul-We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

This list doesn't even begin to enumerate the beliefs held by Mormons. Your list is biased toward the positives, i.e., values those from other Christian faiths will agree with.

A more expansive view of the Mormon creed can be found here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0802456332...vptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_9t251tr360_b

Take a gander at THIS list from that book -

• "God is an exalted man with a physical body, parts, and passions.
• Men may become gods.
• Jesus is merely one of God's sexually billions of begotten-in-heaven sons and the only one begotten by Him on earth.
• Satan is a full spirit brother of Jesus. He could have been the Savior if his plan of salvation had surpassed that of Jesus.
• Adam's 'sin' was a blessing and not a curse.
• It was just as necessary for Adam to sin as it was for Jesus to be crucified."

 

[RaptorWizard]

Was mormon until I was 22 and some. did the mission decided it was wrong toward the end of my mish. Ask me whatever you want to know. I'll try to be objective and I'll tell you if it's my opinion or doctrine.

Okay, that's cool we have someone with experience, knowledge, AND skepticism.

Let's start with this: what's the purpose of "going to the temple" (for Mormons)?

Also, why do some people "go to better kingdoms" than others?

 

[Mal12345]

My staunch Mormon friend says he was forced to join a certain ward based on where he lives. He doesn't like his ward, but he doesn't want to move either. For some Mormons, it might be worth moving to another part of town in order to join a preferred ward. Others choose to live with the lack of freedom to join whatever ward they desire.

 

[Mal12345]

Okay, that's cool we have someone with experience, knowledge, AND skepticism.

Let's start with this: what's the purpose of "going to the temple" (for Mormons)?

To have their marriage "sealed."

Also, why do some people "go to better kingdoms" than others?

Are you referring to the telestrial, terrestrial, and celestial kingdoms? For the same reason that people allegedly go to Hell versus Heaven.

 

[RaptorWizard]

To have their marriage "sealed."

Ya, this whole together for eternity thing is a focus of theirs, but I'm also wondering about silly rituals like where they swear those crazy oaths, or where they summon the souls of the dead, and so forth.

Are you referring to the telestrial, terrestrial, and celestial kingdoms? For the same reason that people allegedly go to Hell versus Heaven.

Yes, I was thinking of the kingdoms. I would like to think though that we're building the kingdom, not like it's some place for reward and punishment - more like it's the fruit of our achievements, mental and otherwise.

 

[Mal12345]

Ya, this whole together for eternity thing is a focus of theirs, but I'm also wondering about silly rituals like where they swear those crazy oaths, or where they summon the souls of the dead, and so forth.



Yes, I was thinking of the kingdoms. I would like to think though that we're building the kingdom, not like it's some place for reward and punishment - more like it's the fruit of our achievements, mental and otherwise.

I see that I put "telestrial" instead of "telestial." I'll surely go to Mormon Hell for that.

I actually bought the book The City of the Saints: Among the Mormons and Across the Rocky Mountains to California for my Mormon friend, but I don't believe he ever read it. It's not even anti-Mormon. Burton respected all religions.

 

[skylights]

My POV - a Christian offshoot, lots of rules and specifications. Too much complexity for my personal spiritual taste. As within any belief system, IMO, Mormonism possesses some truth, and individuals can be of any ethical good or bad variety.

 

[Evil Otter]

Okay, that's cool we have someone with experience, knowledge, AND skepticism.

Let's start with this: what's the purpose of "going to the temple" (for Mormons)?

Also, why do some people "go to better kingdoms" than others?

(doctrine)
Well the church is simply a sunday meeting house. In contrast, the temple is considered to be the Lord's house. Temple attendance then is essentially about coming closer to God. You prepare yourself by living in a manner worthy of being in the Lord's presence.

Aside from that though, there are also certain holy ordinances performed exclusively in the temple (marriage for instance). These are considered the highest ordinances or covenants that one can perform and they are required in order to attain the highest kingdoms of heaven.

So exactly what determines who goes to what kingdom once requirements are met and all that is a matter of judgement, so it would be up to God really.

(opinion)
That said I would simply boil it down to this: bad people - lowest kingdom, good non-mormons/shitty mormons who aren't quite bad people - middle kingdom, good mormons - top kingdom. The mormon religion is very legalistic though, so mostly it is about meeting requirements (baptism, confirmation, weekly sacrament participation, temple ordinances, and marriage).

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Has anyone driven by the Mormon temple in DC near Interstate 95? There used to be some graffiti that I thought was kind of funny. Somebody spraypainted "Surrender Dorothy" on an overpass, because it looks a little like the Emerald City in the Wizard of Oz. Alas, it has since been covered up, but I think it could still be seen for at least part of the new millennium.

We used to pass by their all the time to visit my grandparents. I was fascinated as hell by that place the first time I saw it. It was night, and it really did look otherworldly. Even today, I'm still kind of curious about what it's like on the inside. I wonder if Mitt Romney goes there?

Mormonism seems weird, but all religions seem like that to me, as someone who wasn't really raised in one.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Has anyone driven by the Mormon temple in DC near Interstate 95? There used to be some graffiti that I thought was kind of funny. Somebody spraypainted "Surrender Dorothy" on an overpass, because it looks a little like the Emerald City in the Wizard of Oz. Alas, it has since been covered up, but I think it could still be seen for at least part of the new millennium.

We used to pass by their all the time to visit my grandparents. I was fascinated as hell by that place the first time I saw it. It was night, and it really did look otherworldly. Even today, I'm still kind of curious about what it's like on the inside. I wonder if Mitt Romney goes there?

Mormonism seems weird, but all religions seem like that to me, as someone who wasn't really raised in one.

To me the situation with Mormonism and Christianity seems a little like the relationship between Islam and Christianity. Basically, they both hold the view that Jesus is a pretty important guy, but someone more important go along later. I don't know if Muslims or Mormons believe that Jesus is also God. I was never clear on that.

Adam's 'sin' was a blessing and not a curse.
It was just as necessary for Adam to sin as it was for Jesus to be crucified.

This makes sense to me, actually, as a non-believer. If God didn't want them to eat that fruit, he could have just blocked it off. Instead he left it unguarded. If he didn't do that on purpose, he's the equivalent of someone who leaves aspirin in a baby crib.

 

[WALMART]

http://epsilonprogram.com/

 

[Forever]

[MENTION=15371]RaptorWizard[/MENTION]

I watched the video. If you want to see how much I related to it, I go often receiving revelation slowly, hardly there was the big a-ha! moment but it's nice when it comes by. We can build our faith better if we receive our answers slowly than if we are just told everything. Hopefully I can read the forum more in depth soon. I'd really to start answering people's questions!

Maybe what we do may seem far fetched for others, but if you knew that was the truth, I think you'd give your all to support and embrace the truth and want others to join it too. Not saying I am ever perfect throwing my whole life for this work but I know that the Book of Mormon is true and Jesus Christ is my Savior and I know that Heavenly Father answers our prayer.

I think maybe one thing I think that people don't know much about Mormons is that value knowledge a lot. I find this personality MBTI thing fascinating and want to pursue biochemistry. Faith doesn't save us alone. It wouldn't make sense, at least to me.

 

[93JC]

http://epsilonprogram.com/

Kifflom, brother-brother.

 

[RaptorWizard]

[MENTION=15371]RaptorWizard[/MENTION]

I'm always here, just say the word!

I watched the video. If you want to see how much I related to it, I go often receiving revelation slowly, hardly there was the big a-ha! moment but it's nice when it comes by. We can build our faith better if we receive our answers slowly than if we are just told everything. Hopefully I can read the forum more in depth soon. I'd really to start answering people's questions!

I'm glad you watched the video and offered input.

Maybe what we do may seem far fetched for others, but if you knew that was the truth, I think you'd give your all to support and embrace the truth and want others to join it too. Not saying I am ever perfect throwing my whole life for this work but I know that the Book of Mormon is true and Jesus Christ is my Savior and I know that Heavenly Father answers our prayer.

Well, it may very well all be true, and I acknowledge that as a real possibility.

One thing I wish to note is that even if the Mormon gospel and plan of salvation have truth, they're certainly not (IMO) all complete. Kind of like [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION] said, it may have part of the full picture, but just realize that you could probably integrate bits and pieces from other religions or world philosophies.

I think maybe one thing I think that people don't know much about Mormons is that value knowledge a lot. I find this personality MBTI thing fascinating and want to pursue biochemistry. Faith doesn't save us alone. It wouldn't make sense, at least to me.

I guess pretty much my biggest question about MBTI (in regards to religion) is what God's type would be (if he has one).