Assessing self-honesty

[five sounds]

Typology and other forms of self-exploration require a good amount of honesty with self. I know it's easier for some more than others, but what do you to keep your self-honesty in check?

It's a different but related idea to self-objectivism, which I believe is even harder. But again, I could see how that might be easier for some.

Just looking for some strategies or insights or discussion or whatever.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Honesty I think is a very hard quality to completely live up to. I'm actually more for the idea of integrity, which can integrate honesty, but it can also include qualities like a system of ethics, moral character, the holistic state of being, and so forth.

I take somewhat of a rationalist view, and say that honesty within ourselves, or general clarity of vision in general needs to be devoid of personal poisons (things that damage or delude us if we can't let go of them).

To me, it's very much like how Yoda in Star Wars is completely for the sharing of compassion amongst sentient life forms and connection with great living energy fields (Force), but he also says how we need to clear our minds, to be able to unlearn what's restricting us.

We must unlock that higher mental balance, come to center ourselves with it all.

 

[Honor]

Typology and other forms of self-exploration require a good amount of honesty with self. I know it's easier for some more than others, but what do you to keep your self-honesty in check?

It's a different but related idea to self-objectivism, which I believe is even harder. But again, I could see how that might be easier for some.

Just looking for some strategies or insights or discussion or whatever.

Quick clarification question (sorry my J-ness is showing): the question is how do you know you're being honest with yourself or encourage yourself to be honest with yourself?

 

[Rasofy]

Make some enemies, for they will point out what your friends won't, thus helping you come up with a unbiased perspective.

Actually, don't do that, lol, there must be an easier way.

 

[Glycerine]

Make some enemies, for they will point out what your friends won't, thus helping you come up with a unbiased perspective.

Actually, don't do that, lol, there must be an easier way.

There is usually honesty in anger or annoyance even as friends (even if the person seems to be "overreacting"... if you can read through the emotional noise, there are elements of truth... unless, of course, the person is just consistently "batshit crazy" most of the time) and sometimes drunkenness. Plus, a lot of jokes have some basis in reality but usually are an exaggeration of sorts (and that's one of the reasons why some people "can't take" jokes).

 

[skylights]

For me the hardest part seems like seeing what I'm naturally blind to, so I have to keep my mind open that maybe the way I idealize myself isn't a complete picture, and because I tend to base my conceptions of other things in comparison with myself (eg, "Enneagram 1s are more rigid than me"), I have to be willing to realize that my whole understanding of the system might need to be shifted. Like I thought I was INFP for a long time, and didn't even consider ENFP because I considered myself introverted, and I compared myself to other people who I thought were extraverted and thought there was no way I was like them. Or with the Enneagram, I was so used to thinking of myself as first very excitable and enthusiastic, then as an artistic type and an overachiever, so I first thought I was a 7, then a 4, then a 3. It took me forever to look at 6 because it seemed so unlike me, but again I had to shift my understanding. I think [MENTION=19605]mingularity[/MENTION]'s phrase "suspension of disbelief" is a good one. It's being willing to not write off possibilities even though they don't seem right. You'd think an ENFP should be good at that, but Fi idealization gets in the way.

 

[Honor]

In my experience, the keys to self-honesty are (a) ego being kept in check and (b) cost-benefit analysis: be honest with myself now and experience pain now but less pain in the long run OR lie to myself and get immediate relief but inevitably experience more pain in the long run.

There's also the opposite problem, though, where you're too in touch with yourself and you overblow your problems or weaknesses. It's all about trying to be moderate both ways. I've definitely fallen both ways on the scale at different points in my life.

 

[Cellmold]

Where do I start?

Essentially I hound myself mercilessly day and night, inspecting every atom of my actions, thoughts and beliefs; past, present and potentially future. When others criticise me, there may be times I take it blindly and become irritated, but often I internalise it and try to understand why, what it means and whether it brings to light something I have missed.

Sometimes I might be the opposite end of the delusion spectrum in that I assume the worst automatically about myself, but I have arrogance and pride as well.

Honesty is a horrific battle for me since my natural state is to lie, withhold and deceive. It's like a personal penance on my part, that I subject myself to willful divulgence of information.

Part of it is to make people understand that they see me as I project myself and as they project off each other and themselves, so I don't want them to idealise me, I dislike being told I am something positive that I know in truth I do not possess. Although occasionally they speak true and this is a different kind of blind spot which I miss.

At the heart of it is an ideal, an ideal of honesty as a concept, that our naturally contradictory nature should be exposed and in doing so....we grow as a people. When we learn that the laughter of the crowd need not hurt, we become more of ourselves.

It's that but turned individually.

However I am still steeped in deception even so.

 

[Santosha]

I try to give myself quite a bit of alone time so that I can think about questions like
why am i doing (x)?
what am I hoping to achieve?
Why am i avoiding (x)?
What do I not want people to know about me?
What upsets or makes me happy, why?
I also ask for alot of perspectives from people that I trust. Not people that will make me feel good, but people who's judgement seems more objective than my own.
I try to remember that everyone has blind spots and that I will always have blind spots. This is human. The desire to even be aware of these blind spots is probably the basic structures one needs to get the self-honesty wheel a rollin.

 

[five sounds]

Quick clarification question (sorry my J-ness is showing): the question is how do you know you're being honest with yourself or encourage yourself to be honest with yourself?

Sorry for not getting back to this thread until now. I guess I was more focused on how to know I'm being honest with myself. I think that I want to be, honest with myself, but if I actually could see the objective truth, my focus might shift to allowing myself to accept it.

[MENTION=19605]mingularity[/MENTION] I like what you said about suspending disbelief too. I'm naturally pretty open to possibilities, but like [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION] said, I think my Fi ideals get in the way sometimes. I think that's why I crave outside input and critiques so much. I'm hungry for objective observations about myself. I want to know as close to the truth as I can. I also am fascinated by stories or characteristics of mine when I was a child. Like somehow, it's way to look into my purest truest self before I started getting all mixed up by life.

[MENTION=16139]Honor[/MENTION], you brought up an interesting point about being too aware of your own strengths and weaknesses to the point of blowing them out of proportion, which I can see myself as at-risk for. I can get kind of obsessive about understanding myself, and I'd really never seen any potential negatives to knowing more before you brought that up.

[MENTION=15392]AffirmitiveAnxiety[/MENTION], I have a tendency to want to keep the things I'm ashamed of in secret, sneaking or deceiving to do so at times. As I've gotten older, I've realized the value not only for myself, but for other people struggling with feelings of inadequacy in being more open about stuff that I'm less than proud of. It's still hard as hell, but I usually feel good once I manage to do it anyway.

[MENTION=12991]Huxley3112[/MENTION], that's a great list, and similar to the kinds of questions I try to ask myself when I'm questioning my self-perception. What's hard for me about other people's criticisms, is that sometimes it can be really damaging to take them to heart. I was told that I was lazy and messy a lot as a kid, and I really hated myself for that. I tried to prove I wasn't lazy by over-achieving and was either embarrassed of any signs of disorganization or tried really hard to put up a facade like I had it all together. But, of course, there was some truth to those negatively swung criticisms, and maybe the trick is gleaning the truth from the bias (i.e. I do enjoy pleasure and need breaks when working, but that doesn't make me less valuable. I might be messy, but that isn't some kind of heinous sin.) That kind of goes with what [MENTION=5109]Glycerine[/MENTION] and [MENTION=13260]Rasofy[/MENTION] were saying.

But how can you know the truth when everyone only has perceptions filtered through their own perspectives and personal biases and values?

I guess no one can, and that just has to suffice, which was a nice way for Huxley to conclude. At least we're striving for it I guess.

 

[gromit]

Try to detach strong emotion (eg I SUCK or I AM FANFUCKINGTASTIC) from observation of yourself; instead try to go with a warmish-neutral perspective. It is tough though, because self-honesty sort of reinforces the warmish neutral perspective, and the warmish neutral perspective reinforces self-honesty.

I have no idea if the above makes any sense but I could't think of a better term for warmish neutral.


Also, check in with those who know you well. I think that integrating many different perspectives will approach an understanding of how things really are, a la blind men + elephant.

 

[gromit]

And also, it's tough to pin down "this is how I am" ...because each of us changes depending on situations, different moods, who we are with, stages of life, etc. And there is a loooooot of overlap from person to person. So at a certain point it's a little bit futile. I would personally only try hard at this sort of thing if there is some sort of disconnect between my perception/idealized self and how that is playing out in real life: if it is causing direct strife in my day-to-day living or my relationships, or impeding my goals.

 

[Cellmold]

AffirmitiveAnxiety, I have a tendency to want to keep the things I'm ashamed of in secret, sneaking or deceiving to do so at times. As I've gotten older, I've realized the value not only for myself, but for other people struggling with feelings of inadequacy in being more open about stuff that I'm less than proud of. It's still hard as hell, but I usually feel good once I manage to do it anyway.

Well I think it is also cathartic because of a reveal to others, which often, as this thread notes, has little to do with other people it's more....a reveal that moves us to towards self-honesty.

It's easier to lie to yourself more than anyone else.

 

[five sounds]

[MENTION=9486]gromit[/MENTION] coming at it with the realness! The idea of integrating small bits of truth to form a more whole truth is my total aim. I had never heard of that parable, and I love what it illustrates.

Also, the truth being kind of slippery and ever-changing is definitely something I need to keep in mind. I can become so focused on nailing it down that I narrow my scope and don't allow for variables. Especially being a enneagram 7 and an ENFP, I'm constantly pursuing change actively, so I'm sure that complicates matters.

I just hate the idea of being some equivalent of the smelly kid in class who doesn't know it or the aunt who talks about her dead shih tzu every time you see her.

 

[five sounds]

Well I think it is also cathartic because of a reveal to others, which often, as this thread notes, has little to do with other people it's more....a reveal that moves us to towards self-honesty.

It's easier to lie to yourself more than anyone else.

Yeah, it may very well be the thought of helping others by sharing that gives me the courage to do so. Whenever someone else shares something about themselves that is unflattering or whatever the case may be and I feel encouraged by it, I try to communicate that to the person who did it. I think it's important to do, especially in this era of glossy photo-shopped and hyper-edited versions of ourselves being blasted into the world.

 

[Cellmold]

Yeah, it may very well be the thought of helping others by sharing that gives me the courage to do so. Whenever someone else shares something about themselves that is unflattering or whatever the case may be and I feel encouraged by it, I try to communicate that to the person who did it. I think it's important to do, especially in this era of glossy photo-shopped and hyper-edited versions of ourselves being blasted into the world.

Definitely. I'll admit to a game I play with myself, I deliberately think of a hypothetical scenario and try to engage with it as if it were real....and I do so under the questioning of what I might do or react in a situation.

The more I do it the more I let the truth out to myself about how I might react based on past experience and knowledge of my preferences, triggers and weaknesses. Doing this means that I am not deluding myself and otherwise pretending I would react in a more positive manner than I actually would.

For example the other day on a train I was wondering about what I would do if I were presented with a person assaulting another person right in front of me.

"Well" I thought.

"Of course I would act and try to restrain the person and help the one in distress"

"Would you though? " I replied.


"YES!"

"Ok...think about it, have you ever had anyone jump out at you and shock you suddenly?"

"Yes..."


"Well how did you react?"

"I screamed like I was pre-pubescent and then raised my hands defensively to my chest"

"Right...now increase that 10 fold in a real situation where a person can actually and IS actually being hurt."

"Oh..."

"Yep....the visualisation of an event is never like experiencing it firsthand, that's been your downfall every time if I remember rightly"

"Pff...well...ok yeah yeah... that is true."

"So you've got to try and build up a ready awareness for when it matters and not become deluded and for others benefit not become a bystander"

"Why?"

"Because you can't just let it become someone elses responsibility just because it COULD become someone elses, if everyone thought that it goes along chain reaction and BAM....spectator syndrome."

"I see....well it's a good sentiment...but can I stick to it?"

"Hmm I'm not sure yet, we'll have to see how you develop over the years and whether or not you can do it if the actual situation arises"

"I hope so...."

"Hope isn't good enough, make it happen"

And so on. That often happens in my head and if I am not careful I sometimes talk to myself out loud doing it and get strange looks walking down the street.

 

[five sounds]

^ that bit about screaming like you're pre-pubescent and raising your hands to your chest in defense was fantastic!

I like that exercise, and, unlike a list of questions to consistently ask myself, I feel like I would actually enjoy it and stick with it! Can't wait to play

 

[Typh0n]

Everyone has blind spots, regardless of their self-honesty, so its good to have friends who can sometimes give you feedback and criticise you(without attacking you).

 

[Coriolis]

Quick clarification question (sorry my J-ness is showing): the question is how do you know you're being honest with yourself or encourage yourself to be honest with yourself?

This question is essential - central, in fact, to the whole idea of self-honesty.

In my experience, the keys to self-honesty are (a) ego being kept in check and (b) cost-benefit analysis: be honest with myself now and experience pain now but less pain in the long run OR lie to myself and get immediate relief but inevitably experience more pain in the long run.

(b) is self-explanatory, but how does one do (a)?

I try to give myself quite a bit of alone time so that I can think about questions like
why am i doing (x)?
what am I hoping to achieve?
Why am i avoiding (x)?
What do I not want people to know about me?
What upsets or makes me happy, why?
I also ask for alot of perspectives from people that I trust. Not people that will make me feel good, but people who's judgement seems more objective than my own.
I try to remember that everyone has blind spots and that I will always have blind spots. This is human. The desire to even be aware of these blind spots is probably the basic structures one needs to get the self-honesty wheel a rollin.

I agree that this is a good list. You are lucky if you get useful perspectives from others. I try to view what I am doing as objectively as possible. I can look at the actual results of my actions with a fairly critical eye and am good about owning up to my mistakes. Still I don't get much feedback that I can use in seeing into those blind spots, and as my first comment in this post points out, I don't know how to assess how honest I am really being.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Typology and other forms of self-exploration require a good amount of honesty with self. I know it's easier for some more than others, but what do you to keep your self-honesty in check?

It's a different but related idea to self-objectivism, which I believe is even harder. But again, I could see how that might be easier for some.

Just looking for some strategies or insights or discussion or whatever.

I just discuss stuff here that some people might think is controversial. I can do this because I try (sometimes unsuccessfully) to not emotional reactions at face value and try and figure out what is really going on. Does the person actually have a point to make, or do they just not like hearing that thing and wish alternative viewpoints didn't exist?

Usually when people do the former, they are capable of being calmer and less antagonistic. I tend to listen to those people, not the ones that have nothing to express other than their disapproval.